Jesus Christ, died for all

[MoreCoffee]

I reject your very limited, "half way" Savior.


DEAD folks need a SAVIOR, not just one who meets the DEAD half way and rewords them.


Try answering this:

???

Answering what?

 

[YourTruthGod]

I reject your very limited, "half way" Savior.


DEAD folks need a SAVIOR, not just one who meets the DEAD half way and rewords them.


Try answering this:

Nowhere anywhere does it say that we can't believe and obey God to get saved.

You fell for the teachings of false teachers.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I am sure that the Lord said something like Come to me, all you who labour and have been burdened, and I will refresh you. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you shall find rest for your souls. For my yoke is sweet and my burden is light. but you'll be busy explaining away the invitation to "come to me" since your theology has nothing but dead people being invited, [MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION].

 

[Josiah]

I am sure that the Lord said something like Come to me, all you who labour and have been burdened, and I will refresh you. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you shall find rest for your souls. For my yoke is sweet and my burden is light. but you'll be busy explaining away the invitation to "come to me" since your theology has nothing but dead people being invited,

God wills much. Thus God commands lots of things.... it does not mean the DEAD can do them. Jesus in commended, "Be perfect just like my Father in Heaven is perfect." Does Jesus commanding that therefore mandate that the dead, unregenerate, atheist THUS wills and can do that? Because if so, Jesus was entirely irrelevant, a sick joke... there's no need for grace or mercy or Jesus or the Cross or the Church, just the dead one doing what he is told to do.


God commands MUCH. And for those alive, for those WITH the Holy Spirit, for those with faith - there is much that can be done. But that's not how one attains the Holy Spirit and life. God commands "Choose life" but did I come to life (say March 23, 1987 - nine months before my birthday) BECAUSE I fulfilled God's command? Or is the Creed correct and that the Holy Spirit is the GIVER of spiritual life, is the Bible correct when it credits God with my physical life. God expresses His will..... that doesn't mean ERGO the DEAD atheist hater of God will thus do it. If that were true, we're all in the wrong faith (well, we'd have no options, ALL religions AT LEAST indicate that God at least helps us, including the first step - changing our will).


Jesus commanded DEAD Lazarus to walk out of the tomb. Did that happen because Lazarus obeyed a command - and thus Lazarus raise himself from the dead? Jesus did no miracle He just issued a command that Larzarus thus willed and could perform? Is the Bible wrong to credit Jesus with raising him when actually all impotent Jesus did was shout a command?


Interesting that a Catholic would so powerfully denounce a Creed so central to their church.... ".... and the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life." Not "The Commander to give self life."


Ephesians 2:1

Ephesians 2:13

Romans 3:9-12

Romans 3:23-24

Colossians 2:13

1 Corinthians 12:3

John 3:16-17

Ephesians 2:8-9







Now back to the subject: Is First John 2:2 (etc, etc.) correct OR is the not-yet-found verse that states that Jesus died ONLY for SOME correct?




.

 

[Josiah]

Nowhere anywhere does it say that we can't believe and obey God to get saved.

1 Corinthians 12:3


Nowhere does the Bible say that God only meets people half way, being a "Half Way Savior" limited to saving only those who don't need it much.


See....




Ephesians 2:1

Ephesians 2:13

Romans 3:9-12

Romans 3:23-24

Colossians 2:13

1 Corinthians 12:3

John 3:16-17

Ephesians 2:8-9



Now, I'll relate something I heard in a sermon at a big mega Baptist church (General Baptist). Now, of course, they had a big "Altar Call" at the end of the service. Scriptures read..... organ playing.... everyone standing..... heads bowed...... people praying..... and while the preacher notes a FEW are coming forward (some for the unteenth time), he said, and I quote: "If you find your heart is beating.... if you find your palms are sweating... if you really WANT to come on down.... this is because the Holy Spirit is with you... this is because faith is in you.... and it wants to express itself, it wants you to acknowledge this....." Ah. I agree with that "free will Baptist." FIRST God GIVES you faith, life, the Holy Spirit, justification - AND THAT'S WHY you "hunger" and want to dedicate yourself and to express this faith. You don't give yourself faith and life by walking on down (making the Holy Spirit irrelevant, making self the source of faith) the Bible is right, it is the free gift of God. Nothin' wrong with Altar Calls (although most churches do this at Confirmation) just in crediting self rather than God, patting self on the back, boasting of what self did.




.

 

[Andrew]

God wills much. Thus God commands lots of things.... it does not mean the DEAD can do them. Jesus in commended, "Be perfect just like my Father in Heaven is perfect." Does Jesus commanding that therefore mandate that the dead, unregenerate, atheist THUS wills and can do that? Because if so, Jesus was entirely irrelevant, a sick joke... there's no need for grace or mercy or Jesus or the Cross or the Church, just the dead one doing what he is told to do.


God commands MUCH. And for those alive, for those WITH the Holy Spirit, for those with faith - there is much that can be done. But that's not how one attains the Holy Spirit and life. God commands "Choose life" but did I come to life (say March 23, 1987 - nine months before my birthday) BECAUSE I fulfilled God's command? Or is the Creed correct and that the Holy Spirit is the GIVER of spiritual life, is the Bible correct when it credits God with my physical life. God expresses His will..... that doesn't mean ERGO the DEAD atheist hater of God will thus do it. If that were true, we're all in the wrong faith (well, we'd have no options, ALL religions AT LEAST indicate that God at least helps us, including the first step - changing our will).


Jesus commanded DEAD Lazarus to walk out of the tomb. Did that happen because Lazarus obeyed a command - and thus Lazarus raise himself from the dead? Jesus did no miracle He just issued a command that Larzarus thus willed and could perform? Is the Bible wrong to credit Jesus with raising him when actually all impotent Jesus did was shout a command?






Now back to the subject: Is First John 2:2 (etc, etc.) correct OR is the not-yet-found verse that states that Jesus died ONLY for SOME correct?




.

Sufficient for the whole world yes but only the Elect benefit, sounds harsh doesn't it? Not so, read on and we see that only the faithful (who keep his commandments) will be affirmed as the benefactors of the atonement. This group has many names "Sheep, Elect, Body of Christ, Believing, Faithful" etc... Now without labels (hyper this and that) or denominational bias, can you confirm this statement to be true?

 

[Josiah]

Sufficient for the whole world yes but only the Elect benefit, sounds harsh doesn't it? Not so, read on and we see that only the faithful (who keep his commandments) will be affirmed as the benefactors of the atonement. This group has many names "Sheep, Elect, Body of Christ, Believing, Faithful" etc... Now without labels (hyper this and that) or denominational bias, can you confirm this statement to be true?

I don't agree.


The Bible says Jesus died for all. And yes, those with faith "benefit" (if you will) from that; it is "credited" to THEM via faith as Paul says in Romans 3 (etc., etc.). Where faith is absent, the benefit of such (to word it as you do) is absent. Faith grasps, apprehends, embraces, trust, relies. Our changed will, our changed heart, our changed life.... the power we have becaUse now we have the Holy Spirit... are the result of such and not the cause of such. Our changed self is not why justification happens, justification is why the change happens.



A blessed Holy Week to all...



- Josiah




.

 

[Andrew]

I don't agree.


The Bible says Jesus died for all. And yes, those with faith "benefit" (if you will) from that; it is "credited" to THEM via faith. Where faith is absent, the benefit of such (to word it as you do) is absent. Faith grasps, apprehends, embraces, trust, relies. Our changed will, our changed heart, our changed life.... the power we have becaUse now we have the Holy Spirit... are the result of such and not the cause of such. Our changed self is not why justification happens, justification is why the change happens.

So what happens to those whom God did not regenerate by giving Faith?

 

[RichWh1]

You contradict yourself and sound very confused.

How is what I said a contradiction? Confused? I hope not!


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[YourTruthGod]

1 Corinthians 12:3

Nowhere does the Bible say that God only meets people half way, being a "Half Way Savior" limited to saving only those who don't need it much.

That is not from the scriptures.

Nowhere anywhere do the scriptures say what you say. Nowhere anywhere are we shamed for obeying God.

Now, I'll relate something I heard in a sermon at a big mega Baptist church (General Baptist). Now, of course, they had a big "Altar Call" at the end of the service. Scriptures read..... organ playing.... everyone standing..... heads bowed...... people praying..... and while the preacher notes a FEW are coming forward (some for the unteenth time), he said, and I quote: "If you find your heart is beating.... if you find your palms are sweating... if you really WANT to come on down.... this is because the Holy Spirit is with you... this is because faith is in you.... and it wants to express itself, it wants you to acknowledge this....." Ah. I agree with that "free will Baptist." FIRST God GIVES you faith, life, the Holy Spirit, justification - AND THAT'S WHY you "hunger" and want to dedicate yourself and to express this faith. You don't give yourself faith and life by walking on down (making the Holy Spirit irrelevant, making self the source of faith) the Bible is right, it is the free gift of God. Nothin' wrong with Altar Calls (although most churches do this at Confirmation) just in crediting self rather than God, patting self on the back, boasting of what self did.

.

I just don't recognize that from the scriptures.

 

[RichWh1]

So what happens to those whom God did not regenerate by giving Faith?

The Bible tells us what happens to those unregenerate
Study!


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[YourTruthGod]

How is what I said a contradiction? Confused? I hope not!


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Obeying Jesus' commands is what makes us alive.

We all can have faith.

Jesus doesn't just give faith for him to people who hate him, as you said.

 

[RichWh1]

Obeying Jesus' commands is what makes us alive.

We all can have faith.

Jesus doesn't just give faith for him to people who hate him, as you said.

What are the comandante of Jesus? How does obedience to His commandments make us alive?


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[YourTruthGod]

What are the comandante of Jesus? How does obedience to His commandments make us alive?

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You don't know the commandments of Jesus?

His words are Spirit and life.

We get the Spirit and life by obeying his commands, and it is how we eat him.

 

[RichWh1]

You don't know the commandments of Jesus?

His words are Spirit and life.

We get the Spirit and life by obeying his commands, and it is how we eat him.

Typical! When you don't have an answer give a non answer!



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[atpollard]

So what happens to those whom God did not regenerate by giving Faith?

They receive justice.

 

[Josiah]

So what happens to those whom God did not regenerate by giving Faith?

Where there is no faith, there is no means to credit what Jesus did for THEM (to use Paul's language in Romans 3). "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life." Justification is Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide as one, singular, inseparable truth.

 

[Josiah]

Obeying Jesus' commands is what makes us alive.

Salvation by works of self.

Jesus being nothing but a Commander, shouting orders.

No God. No Holy Spirit. No life. No grace. No mercy. No gospel. Just an ORDER. To Dead people who can't respond.

I reject that.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Typical! When you don't have an answer give a non answer!



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You need to look for Jesus' commandments.

He starts his commandments with repent, and believe.

John 6:63 The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

John 8:51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."

 

[YourTruthGod]

Salvation by works of self.

Jesus being nothing but a Commander, shouting orders.

No God. No Holy Spirit. No life. No grace. No mercy. No gospel. Just an ORDER. To Dead people who can't respond.

I reject that.

You go reject that it is never ever wrong to obey Jesus.