For Those Who Have Not Been Healed

[popsthebuilder]

Being healed doesn't have to mean physically. And surely isn't to be taken for granted if one sins after knowing specifically not to.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[Hammster]

Being healed doesn't have to mean physically. And surely isn't to be taken for granted if one sins after knowing specifically not to.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

Everyone sins even after knowing specifically not to.

 

[tango]

Being healed doesn't have to mean physically. And surely isn't to be taken for granted if one sins after knowing specifically not to.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

If healing is a promise from God (as stated in the OP) then it's not much use to be healed of my emotional issues if what I really needed was to be healed of cancer. It sounds like the kind of cop-out people might use to explain why someone wasn't healed, by arguing that they kinda-sorta-were healed, in a manner of speaking.

And as Hammster said we all sin even though we all know a thousand things not to do we seem very good at doing them.

 

[popsthebuilder]

If healing is a promise from God (as stated in the OP) then it's not much use to be healed of my emotional issues if what I really needed was to be healed of cancer. It sounds like the kind of cop-out people might use to explain why someone wasn't healed, by arguing that they kinda-sorta-were healed, in a manner of speaking.

And as Hammster said we all sin even though we all know a thousand things not to do we seem very good at doing them.

To be wanting of anything in this life for self is not right. We are to do the will of God for God, not for ourselves. Being healed is a metaphor for being saved and without sin as much as humanly possible. To expect something from God in this life is borderline entitlement. We are entitled to nothing but the fruits of our labor for God's purpose alone.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[Alithis]

Everyone sins even after knowing specifically not to.

do they ? specifically ? why ..is some unseen force making them do so ?

 

[Hammster]

do they ? specifically ? why ..is some unseen force making them do so ?

Yes. It's called the flesh. It's our constant battle.

 

[Alithis]

The translated "sick" is also the word translated at "weak" elsewhere (see Romans 8:3, for example). In the context of the preceding and following verses, does it make more sense to use this understanding? If not, why not?

in the letter to timothy the topic is not healing .. its a cherry picked verse taken out of context .. thats the truth of it . and the end of it for me .
the lord Jesus said "all things are possible to them who believe " ..

So - "All things are possible to them who believe " thats the truth spoken in truth by he who is truth .

 

[Alithis]

Yes. It's called the flesh. It's our constant battle.

ahh but is it? .. when one has learned that a specific action is sin ..do they continue in that specific action? NO .. if they do then they add sin to sin because they must rebel against God to do so . remember the word specific - im not speaking of perceived sin ..we are speaking of specific sin .. i mean im sure you have learned that to go down the road to a neighbor's house and sleep with his wife is sin.. do you them now go and do it ? nope of course not . that would be to rebel against god and preform a specific sin.

to broaden the topic .. do people sin specific sins after knowing they are not to- ..yes ..- but do they HAVE TO ? absolutely not -. whom the son sets free is free indeed . therefore to do so one must (in specific scenario ) choose to rebel against the holy Spirit who is clearly telling them not to in order to commit that sin .

 

[Alithis]

so glad to see you by the way hammster .. love bumping heads with you lol ... i enjoy my stances being challenged

 

[Hammster]

in the letter to timothy the topic is not healing .. its a cherry picked verse taken out of context .. thats the truth of it . and the end of it for me .
the lord Jesus said "all things are possible to them who believe " ..

So - "All things are possible to them who believe " thats the truth spoken in truth by he who is truth .

I was referring to the passage in James. Sorry for not being clearer.

 

[Hammster]

ahh but is it? .. when one has learned that a specific action is sin ..do they continue in that specific action? NO .. if they do then they add sin to sin because they must rebel against God to do so . remember the word specific - im not speaking of perceived sin ..we are speaking of specific sin .. i mean im sure you have learned that to go down the road to a neighbor's house and sleep with his wife is sin.. do you them now go and do it ? nope of course not . that would be to rebel against god and preform a specific sin.

to broaden the topic .. do people sin specific sins after knowing they are not to- ..yes ..- but do they HAVE TO ? absolutely not -. whom the son sets free is free indeed . therefore to do so one must (in specific scenario ) choose to rebel against the holy Spirit who is clearly telling them not to in order to commit that sin .

Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

That's pretty specific. So if you do anything that's not God-glorifying, it's sin. Including your thought life.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Seems like y'all are on the same page to me. Just sayin


Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[Alithis]

Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

That's pretty specific. So if you do anything that's not God-glorifying, it's sin. Including your thought life.

nah thats not "specific sin ".. specific sin is listed in the ten commandments

 

[Alithis]

I was referring to the passage in James. Sorry for not being clearer.

:blush: :swordfight:

 

[Alithis]

Where's the assumption in the explicit statement in the text? Paul told Timothy to "take a little wine". Not "present yourself to the elders". Not "go to church and ask people to pray for you". Not even "I'm praying for you". A totally secular approach to a problem. So why might Paul have done such a thing if healing was guaranteed? Why wouldn't Paul even attempt to encourage Timothy "don't worry, God will heal you"?

exactly .. he wasn't ill with a sickness which requires miracle healing ... but a simple ailment which was treated with a little wine .. - a word of wisdom acted upon and recovery done . so no case of not being healed .. argument annulled .

So we go back to the words of the lord Jesus .. "all things are possible to them that believe" .

 

[seekingsolace]

ahh but is it? .. when one has learned that a specific action is sin ..do they continue in that specific action? NO .. if they do then they add sin to sin because they must rebel against God to do so . remember the word specific - im not speaking of perceived sin ..we are speaking of specific sin .. i mean im sure you have learned that to go down the road to a neighbor's house and sleep with his wife is sin.. do you them now go and do it ? nope of course not . that would be to rebel against god and preform a specific sin.

to broaden the topic .. do people sin specific sins after knowing they are not to- ..yes ..- but do they HAVE TO ? absolutely not -. whom the son sets free is free indeed . therefore to do so one must (in specific scenario ) choose to rebel against the holy Spirit who is clearly telling them not to in order to commit that sin .

It's not always as clear cut as that. We know the human heart is deceitful and desperately sick. If we are angry, envious, bitter or any other of these to a brother and say or think something sinful, we have sinned. This is not always a deliberate sin, but a sin all the same. A person that can truly control every thought and action and know how God views every one of them, is a very special one at that. Our discernment is a pretty shallow assessment I feel.

In regards to healing, a person living a completely righteous and sin free life still does not merit healing on demand. if it is Gods will to heal, then thus it will be; if not, no - it's Gods decision. So when I pray for family that have serious conditions, my prayers are heard, but it is Gods will, not mine that decides.

 

[Alithis]

It's not always as clear cut as that. We know the human heart is deceitful and desperately sick. If we are angry, envious, bitter or any other of these to a brother and say or think something sinful, we have sinned. This is not always a deliberate sin, but a sin all the same. A person that can truly control every thought and action and know how God views every one of them, is a very special one at that. Our discernment is a pretty shallow assessment I feel.

In regards to healing, a person living a completely righteous and sin free life still does not merit healing on demand. if it is Gods will to heal, then thus it will be; if not, no - it's Gods decision. So when I pray for family that have serious conditions, my prayers are heard, but it is Gods will, not mine that decides.

so it appears . but we are speaking of "specific sin" .. and once we have been set free . nothing can "make us " return to that sin.. only we can choose to do that . we need to stop viewing what the lord Jesus accomplished on the cross from a defeatist mindset . if we listen to the Holy Spirit in harmony with the written word and obey .. we simply cannot accidently return to a specific sin we have been set free from .. unles we love it more then we love God . So if anyone is doing so and self justifying it as a "weakness of the flesh " then they best repent and trust in the POWER of the cross . Because what the lord Jesus did on the cross overcame the weakness of the flesh fully and totally .

we will always only be tempted only by what we love the most .. so love the lord jesus more than the sins of the flesh .


as for healing on demand .. we demand nothing of the lord . refer the book of Job .

 

[seekingsolace]

so it appears . but we are speaking of "specific sin" .. and once we have been set free . nothing can "make us " return to that sin.. only we can choose to do that . we need to stop viewing what the lord Jesus accomplished on the cross from a defeatist mindset . if we listen to the Holy Spirit in harmony with the written word and obey .. we simply cannot accidently return to a specific sin we have been set free from .. unles we love it more then we love God . So if anyone is doing so and self justifying it as a "weakness of the flesh " then they best repent and trust in the POWER of the cross . Because what the lord Jesus did on the cross overcame the weakness of the flesh fully and totally .

This isn't about specific sins, the goal posts were moved a while back for some reason. We were speaking about healing apparently being kept from sinners. It is all too easy to fall into sin: falsely accusing another, which we see routinely, these are judgments - sinful ones at that. I have yet to find anyone who is in the heart and mind of the person accused. Sins are sins regardless of being deliberate.

I agree justifying sins is never an excuse, but a self justifying attitude can also be assuming we never sin because Christ 'released' us from it. This simply isn't true, while we are in flesh we have weaknesses - those we are not even aware of. Willfully sinning is another matter, yes that is controllable, yet sin in totality? Being enslaved to sin, and being sin free are different matters.

There is no self defeatist mindset in trusting in the Lord to lead us through our infirmities.

we will always only be tempted only by what we love the most

Did Jesus love Satan the most when He was tempted?

as for healing on demand .. we demand nothing of the lord . refer the book of Job .

We agree on this. What's the reference to the book of Job for?

 

[Hammster]

nah thats not "specific sin ".. specific sin is listed in the ten commandments

"Do all for the glory of God" is specific.

 

[Hammster]

I'd like to see a response to post 117.

Thanks.