What do Lutherans believe?

[Tigger]

Getting back to the topic, then, one thing that separates me from the LCMS is that the LCMS insists that every member agree to every last, every little, every non-essential, teaching that the church has found in scripture. Of course, few actually do that in their own lives, but that is the churchs theological perspective on what should be believed.

Right as [MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] said as far as the LCMS is concerned as pertaining to the requirements of laity for membership it's only Luther's small catechism. I actually had this conversation with a local LCMS pastor who agreed because we were discussing that I not longer hold to the belief that the cosmos were created in literally six days although a quick search on the topic I haven't as of yet found the source to confirm that yet. You may be thinking of a more conservative branch of confessional Lutherans such as the ELDONA.

 

[Albion]

Right as [MENTION=13]Josiah[/MENTION] said as far as the LCMS is concerned as pertaining to the requirements of laity for membership it's only Luther's small catechism. I actually had this conversation with a local LCMS pastor who agreed because we were discussing that I not longer hold to the belief that the cosmos were created in literally six days although a quick search on the topic I haven't as of yet found the source to confirm that yet. You may be thinking of a more conservative branch of confessional Lutherans such as the ELDONA.

No, actually I was thinking of a different matter. While it may be, as you say, that a prospective member need only agree to the contents of a single statement of belief, the LCMS itself insists that Christians generally and Lutherans in particular have an obligation to agree on every last point of doctrine, large or small, essential or...??

 

[Josiah]

Under the Lord's Supper the pamphlet about it says

"The Lutheran church believes,teaches and confesses that
the Lord’s Supper is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus
Christ,under the bread and wine,given to us Christians to eat
and to drink. We hold that the bread and the wine in the
Supper are the true body and blood of Christ and that these are
given and received into the mouths of all who commune.
Those who believe the promise: “Given and shed for you for
the forgiveness of sins,”receive forgiveness of sins,life and salvation.This
promise,along with the bodily eating and drinking,is
the main thing in the Sacrament."

So you actually think the bread and wine or juice turn into the body of Christ?




.

No.


I have no idea as to the source of the "pamphlet" you quote, but it states the Body and Blood are present "under the bread and wine" not "replacing the bread and wine."

Here is a discussion of the 3 popular Western views on this: http://www.christianityhaven.com/sh...an-quot-is-quot-Catholic-Lutheran-Evangelical

I see that you also practice closed communion, so if I came to your church this experience would not be open to me.

This is a matter of praxis, not doctrine. Nothing in the Lutheran Confessions addresses this point at all.

The praxis varies widely among the 300+ Lutheran denominations - and often among the member parishes within them. In the LCMS, there is a polity that there is to be "confessional unity" among those who recieve the Eucharist in member parishes, but exactly what that means and how that is "cranked out" is left largely to pastoral discretion. You will find some LCMS parishes (and even more WELS ones) that make this simple by simply requiring all participants to be members of that parish (known to the pastor) or at least Confirmed members of their denomination, but most take a far more personal and pastoral approach. I simply cannot say what a particular one of the over 100,000 Lutheran parishes in the world would say regarding YOU specifically participating. But my counsel if always to ask: simply ask AHEAD of time (perhaps via email or the phone) and to not take offense if it is the polity of that congregation to not specifically invite you. The praxis you bring up simply is personal and individual.



I hope that helps.


- Josiah

 

[Tigger]

No, actually I was thinking of a different matter. While it may be, as you say, that a prospective member need only agree to the contents of a single statement of belief, the LCMS itself insists that Christians generally and Lutherans in particular have an obligation to agree on every last point of doctrine, large or small, essential or...??

If that is true for discussion purposes we would need a link in other to discuss the actual specific points in the matter.



I was able to find this>5.0 MEMBERSHIP

Synod congregations often distinguish between three types of congregational membership12: baptized, communicant, and voting 13. Voting membership may be open to all communicant members but may also be limited to males only14. Care should be taken that the age at which individuals may hold voting membership conforms to any requirements of state law. Many congregations restrict voting membership to persons who have reached the age of legal majority. This is especially important when decisions involving contracts and other legal matters are made. Again, membership in organizations whose principles and conduct conflict with the Word of God shall be prohibited (Bylaw 3.9.6.3.1 [a])15. Also, congregations are not to deny membership or other congregational privileges to any Christian because of race or ethnic origin (Bylaw 2.3.1 [a])16.
Example:
“This congregation distinguishes between three types of congregational membership.
5.1 The membership of this congregation includes the following:
5.1.1 Baptized members are all who have been baptized in the name of the Triune God and who are under the spiritual care of the pastor of this congregation, including the children who have not yet been confirmed into communicant membership.
5.1.2 Communicant members are those baptized members who have been instructed and are familiar with the contents of Luther’s Small Catechism, have been confirmed in the Lutheran faith, and accept the confessional standard of Section _______ of this Constitution.
5.1.3. Voting members are communicant members who have reached the age of ______ years.
5.2 The members of this congregation are received in the following manner:

From this link>LCMS Guidelines for the Constitution and Bylaws of Lutheran ...

 

[Lamb]

If I proclaimed myself to be a physics teacher but didn't know much about physics and taught art...should I still call myself a physics teacher?

The Book of Concord is the confessions of what Lutherans believe and assembled for the purpose of having a doctrinal statement. If a "Lutheran" teaches against what the confessions states, then that person really should not be identifying as a Lutheran. Yes, there are laity who are confused on some things and need to be corrected because they might be unaware of what the confessions state. That is a little differently than openly rejecting what the confessions DO state.

More and more churches are going through the Book of Concord as part of their bible studies so it's not like they're all completely ignorant.

 

[MennoSota]

Book of Concord

1580. Also known as the Concordia, this contains the confessions or symbols of the Lutheran Church: the three ecumenical creeds-the Apostolic, Nicene, and Athanasian; the Augsburg Confession (1530) and its Apology (1531); the Smalcald Articles and the “Tract concerning the Power and Primacy of the Pope” (1537); Martin Luther's Small and Large Catechisms (1529); and the Epitome and Thorough Declaration of the Formula of Concord (1577). It supplanted the various corpora doctrinae among German Lutherans.

Subscription to these confessions among Lutherans varies. Among some it is made quia (because) they are believed to be in conformity with Scripture; among others, quatenus insofar as they are.

Although Luther's Small Catechism (in 1548) and the Augsburg Confession and its Apology (in 1536 by Richard Taverner) were translated into English already in the sixteenth century, no English translation of the entire Book of Concord appeared before 1851, when one was issued in Virginia. H.E. Jacob's translation appeared in 1882. In 1921 the translation by F. Bente and W.H.T. Daw, known as the Triglot Concordia, was published in St. Louis, Missouri. In 1959 T.G. Tappert, with the assistance of A.C. Piepkorn, J.J. Pelikan, and R.H. Fischer, produced the Book of Concord (printed in Philadelphia). The texts in the original languages can best be found in Die Bekenntnissschriften der evangelisch-lutherischen Kirche (1952 ff.).
https://www.biblicaltraining.org/library/book-concord

 

[Albion]

If that is true for discussion purposes we would need a link in other to discuss the actual specific points in the matter.

Yes, and I was reading something rather official from LCMS only a few weeks ago that asserted the principle, which squared with what I already thought was the case, but finding it again...I wonder.

 

[MennoSota]

It is fascinating to see how people will trust in someone else's commentary about the Bible for their eternal salvation. The book of concord as well as the Roman catechism seem to be in direct conflict with Sola Scriptura.

 

[Josiah]

It is fascinating to see how people will trust in someone else's commentary about the Bible for their eternal salvation. The book of concord as well as the Roman catechism seem to be in direct conflict with Sola Scriptura.

1. You are REFORMED and not Lutheran so it's not TOO shocking that you disagree with some things in Lutheranism. It's mutual.


2. Both Lutherans and Reformed AGREE on the normative practice of Scripture ("Sola Scriptura"). Of course, we disagree on the arbitration of a few things according to that Rule. It's mutual. To exactly the same extent on exactly the same issues. Obviously.


3. Both Lutherans and Reformed AGREE that the norma normans is Scripture alone, but we hold our (yes different) confessions as norma normata. No difference WHATSOEVER in this sense. No Lutheran denomination on the planet in 500 years has taught that our Confessions are norma normans (or even A norma normans). Come on, my friend.....



Now, back to the topic....



- Josiah

 

[Tigger]

Yes, and I was reading something rather official from LCMS only a few weeks ago that asserted the principle, which squared with what I already thought was the case, but finding it again...I wonder.

It will come down to weather they used the articulation of should or shall.

 

[MennoSota]

So, correct interpretation of the concordia determines correct interpretation of the Bible. Whoever wrote the concordia is the final arbiter of what the Bible is saying. Failure to agree with the arbiter equals failure to agree with scripture.
Interesting...

 

[Andrew]

Nvrmnd

 

[MennoSota]

Section 52-57 of the large catechism is interesting in that there is no scriptural references (indeed I find little reference at all to scripture), but there is an anti-Semitic remark.
Why no scripture to back up the concordia? Hmmm....
http://bookofconcord.org/lc-6-baptism.php

 

[Josiah]

So, correct interpretation of the concordia determines correct interpretation of the Bible. Whoever wrote the concordia is the final arbiter of what the Bible is saying. Failure to agree with the arbiter equals failure to agree with scripture.
Interesting...

Of course, no one remotely suggested such a thing. So the "so" and the "interesting" are YOUR creations/inventions.


Back to the issue of this thread....




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[Confessional Lutheran]

Of course, no one remotely suggested such a thing. So the "so" and the "interesting" are YOUR creations/inventions.


Back to the issue of this thread....




.

What do Lutherans believe? The 5 Solae, for a start. Then, there's our monergistic worldview and the emphasis on the Church being where the Word is proclaimed and the Sacraments correctly administered. Our beliefs can be traced back to the early years of the Christian Church. What Martin Luther and his allies did was try to scrape the accretions of the Middle Ages off of the life and faith of the Church. Martin Luther also acknowledged the priesthood of the believer and acknowledged the sanctity of all vocations, while retaining the Office of the Holy Ministry. We believe that the Divine Service should be in the language of the congregation, rather than Latin and that the Bible should be available to everybody. Glory be to God alone!

 

[MennoSota]

Of course, no one remotely suggested such a thing. So the "so" and the "interesting" are YOUR creations/inventions.


Back to the issue of this thread....




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Correct my surmising using the concordia then, Josiah.

 

[MennoSota]

What do Lutherans believe? The 5 Solae, for a start. Then, there's our monergistic worldview and the emphasis on the Church being where the Word is proclaimed and the Sacraments correctly administered. Our beliefs can be traced back to the early years of the Christian Church. What Martin Luther and his allies did was try to scrape the accretions of the Middle Ages off of the life and faith of the Church. Martin Luther also acknowledged the priesthood of the believer and acknowledged the sanctity of all vocations, while retaining the Office of the Holy Ministry. We believe that the Divine Service should be in the language of the congregation, rather than Latin and that the Bible should be available to everybody. Glory be to God alone!

I haven't found the five Sola's in the concordia. Can you show me where it's found?

 

[Imalive]

Why is everyone naming themselves after some guy? I'm a Peterian. I'm a Jamesian. Oh they had no last names then.

 

[Andrew]

I got a question and forgive me because I dont know how Lutherans take it.
It's my understanding that Lutherans reject "on the jews and their lies" by Martin Luther, how do Lutherans respond when this is mentioned? it seems that his views on the jew changed toward a more antisemitic approach than his original "saving" of them... Quite curious thats all, again I apologise if this offends anyone

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

 

[Lamb]

Why is everyone naming themselves after some guy? I'm a Peterian. I'm a Jamesian. Oh they had no last names then.

Lutherans did not name themselves that ...it was the Catholics who gave them that name.