United Methodist Splitting up

[Lanman87]

Has anyone been keeping up with the churches leaving the United Methodist Conference because of the UMC's tilt toward liberal practice and theology?

There was an article in our local paper about a a large Methodist Church in my area has voted to leave the UMC for a new Methodist Conference called The Global Methodist Church. The vote was 95% to leave the UMC.

Similar things have happened with the Episcopal Church in North America where many churches broke free and formed the Anglican Church in North America and in the Presbyterian Church where the conservatives left to form the Presbyterian Church in America back in the 1970's.

Both the Anglican Church in North American and the Presbyterian Church in America are rapidly expanding while the liberal churches they left are in decline. And by liberal I mean ordaining openly LGBTQ members, performing same sex weddings and supporting abortion rights.

Both my mother and my wife were raised in the Methodist Church. When I was a child I attended many services at our local UMC and went to VBS every year at the UMC. Needless to say, I have a soft spot for the UMC. I hate this had to happen but my guess if the conservative churches that leave will grow and the liberal churches that remain will decline, except in New England and California and maybe a few large cities.


Anyway, I don't really have a question but wanted to know others thoughts about it.

 

[Albion]

Has anyone been keeping up with the churches leaving the United Methodist Conference because of the UMC's tilt toward liberal practice and theology?

There was an article in our local paper about a a large Methodist Church in my area has voted to leave the UMC for a new Methodist Conference called The Global Methodist Church. The vote was 95% to leave the UMC.

Similar things have happened with the Episcopal Church in North America where many churches broke free and formed the Anglican Church in North America and in the Presbyterian Church where the conservatives left to form the Presbyterian Church in America back in the 1970's.

Both the Anglican Church in North American and the Presbyterian Church in America are rapidly expanding while the liberal churches they left are in decline. And by liberal I mean ordaining openly LGBTQ members, performing same sex weddings and supporting abortion rights.

Both my mother and my wife were raised in the Methodist Church. When I was a child I attended many services at our local UMC and went to VBS every year at the UMC. Needless to say, I have a soft spot for the UMC. I hate this had to happen but my guess if the conservative churches that leave will grow and the liberal churches that remain will decline, except in New England and California and maybe a few large cities.


Anyway, I don't really have a question but wanted to know others thoughts about it.

And thanks for asking about others' thoughts on this subject. I am in no way as near to the topic of the UMC as you probably are, but the split seems not to have been covered in the news as much as we would think appropriate. Which churches are going either way--to the UMC or the GMC--would be interesting to know.

As for the Anglicans/Episcopalians, the Episcopal Church has been losing members steadily for half a century now and some observers say it soon will simply merge with a number of the other declining, liberal, mainline churches, including the United Methodist Church (reduced further by the departure of the Global Methodist congregations), and the United Church of Christ. This all might sound far-fetched, but it happened in Canada and in India.

The Episcopal split-offs are another matter, though. The Anglican Church in North America that you mentioned started up in 2009, I think, and it's still never decided what it stands for, what clergy standards it will hold to, what kind of worship services to have, etc. The answer usually comes down to "choose one of the above options." Parts of the still unfinished merger are threatening to leave, and several scandals among the leadership have been damaging.

Some of this resulted from the fact that the people who left the Episcopal Church in order to found ACNA had been willing to stay with the Episcopal church for thirty years when it was becoming more and more liberal, but after tolerating all of that for decades, they ran up against one issue they could not live with--same-sex marriages and homosexual clergy. So they finally left, but that issue was just about the only issue that bound all of the dissidents together. However, the ACNA worked the media very effectively and the media responded by exaggerating the significance of the split.

Meanwhile, there are a dozen or so truly traditionalist Anglican churches that were founded earlier. They are usually called the Continuing Anglican churches. These are smaller, but they seem to be gradually finding their way, concluding some mergers, and gaining members including some from some other denominations.

Thanks for asking. I've gone on too long and didn't add much to the topic you care most about, but the subject is a refreshing change from the usual topics we deal with.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes we are in discussions about this issue, so far no vote but I am sure that if the gay issue is pushed we will leave

 

[Josiah]

Internationally, there seems to be a bit of a re-alignment going on in Protestantism.

It USED to be related to the Reformation in Europe. Associated with the various traditions related to that, many of them geographical and historical in Europe. Immigrants brought them to the US, Australia, Canada, etc. But while aspects of that continue, the alignment seems to be increasingly theological - conservative/traditional in theology and morality vs. liberal in theology and morality,


Lutheran example:

Millions of immigrants from Scandinavia and Germany to the US were Lutherans, especially from 1830-1910 or so. While some were pretty liberal, most were conservative (even by today's standards). The division was mostly cultural. There were Germans, Danes, Swedes, Finns, Norwegians - and even within these groups, cultural (and theological) differenes; there were once 5 different Norwegian Lutheran denominations in the USA. But in the 20th Century, these re-aligned. Conservative Lutherans drifted in the LCMS, WELS, ELS.... more "progressive" Lutherans drifted into the churches that now are the ELCA. The Conservative ones have remained steadfast (some even feel drifted to more conservative) while the ELCA is journeying quickly more and more liberal - in both theology and morality. There have been no major splits in denomination (on the contrary, lots of mergers but mergers of the more liberal groups) but definitely a re-alignment. Today, it has little to nothing to do with culture and historic connections to Europe and everything to do with theology and morality. The result is curious! In SOME ways, I (as a confessional/conservative/traditional Lutheran) feel a bit more kinship in some ways to the Catholic Church than I do to the ELCA!




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[Josiah]

Yes we are in discussions about this issue, so far no vote but I am sure that if the gay issue is pushed we will leave

Good to see you posting, brother!



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[NewCreation435]

Two of the Methodist churches near me have both left the denomination and as far as I know have become independent. Many of the congregations in my area are either leaving the denomination or talking about it

 

[Faith]

Two of the Methodist churches near me have both left the denomination and as far as I know have become independent. Many of the congregations in my area are either leaving the denomination or talking about it

I tried out a UMC church and didn’t care for it. It was too small and the service was boring.

 

[NewCreation435]

I tried out a UMC church and didn’t care for it. It was too small and the service was boring.

I'm no longer Methodist myself and haven't been for about 39 years now, but the ones who seem like they are doing well have contemporary services with more upbeat music.

 

[Faith]

I'm no longer Methodist myself and haven't been for about 39 years now, but the ones who seem like they are doing well have contemporary services with more upbeat music.

The one I visited didn’t.

 

[Lanman87]

I'm no longer Methodist myself and haven't been for about 39 years now, but the ones who seem like they are doing well have contemporary services with more upbeat music.

The Methodist Churches in my area usually have two services. One is a "traditional" service which is much more liturgical with organ music, candles, the pastor wearing robes and so forth. The other is a contemporary service which is more informal and had a worship band and "Praise Team". The pastor ditches his robes and puts on slacks or jeans with maybe a sport coat.

 

[Albion]

Alas, the middle way in everything seems lost on contemporary Protestantism. That aside, I'm wondering who shows up for each of those services you mentioned, and doesn't this format create two different congregations in effect??

 

[Lanman87]

Alas, the middle way in everything seems lost on contemporary Protestantism. That aside, I'm wondering who shows up for each of those services you mentioned, and doesn't this format create two different congregations in effect??

I'm interested in that myself. I would imagine the traditional service is mostly older folks and the contemporary service mostly younger folks.

The church I attend has two services every Sunday morning. They are both the same service with the same music and the same message. Even this format makes it difficult to not have "two congregations". I usually attend the later service at 11:00am. More than once when I attended the 9:00am service people would ask me if I'm new in town or visiting the church. We do have opportunities to "mingle" outside of the Sunday morning service but it is still difficult to be "one congregation". Especially, if you have health issues or family issues that keep you from attending every opportunity.