USA Trump on Muslims

Ruth

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This topic has gone seriously off topic. I am asking you now to stick to the topic and stop doing your own agenda. once again the topic is Trump on Muslims.
 

psalms 91

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We have seriously gone off topic now. I could careless if I'm correct according to the bible.
I will leave you to this thread, Im done
 

Highlander

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And therein lies your problem, Ruth.
 

Ruth

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Sorry Highlander. I cannot read your message as I have you on ignore. It seems you are here just to cause conflict.
 

Highlander

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Sorry Highlander. I cannot read your message as I have you on ignore. It seems you are here just to cause conflict.

Liberals almost always do whatever they can to ignore the truth. That is part of your MO.

The reason I am here is because I was ASKED to return after being informed that the previous clown -- a liberal who was running the forum -- has moved on. The forum, as I am told, was becoming dead and boring and I was asked to come back (I had left a couple months ago) and breathe some life into it.

Sounds like YOU could use a breath of fresh air, yourself.

But if the truth -- and I -- am too strong for you, feel free to keep me on ignore. That word is the beginning of the word, "ignorant." So, if the glove fits, feel free to slide your hand into it. ;)
 

tango

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Liberals almost always do whatever they can to ignore the truth. That is part of your MO.

The reason I am here is because I was ASKED to return after being informed that the previous clown -- a liberal who was running the forum -- has moved on. The forum, as I am told, was becoming dead and boring and I was asked to come back (I had left a couple months ago) and breathe some life into it.

Sounds like YOU could use a breath of fresh air, yourself.

But if the truth -- and I -- am too strong for you, feel free to keep me on ignore. That word is the beginning of the word, "ignorant." So, if the glove fits, feel free to slide your hand into it. ;)

Do you have anything useful to add to the discussion Highlander, or is your purpose just to throw lame insults at people?

Ignoring fools is far from ignorant, for what it's worth. Which clown who was running the forum has moved on? Are you sure you're in the right place?
 

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No name calling please?

I asked Highlander to return. I know him personally and he's a good guy with strong political insight.

Back to the conversation now :)
 

tango

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No name calling please?

I asked Highlander to return. I know him personally and he's a good guy with strong political insight.

Back to the conversation now :)

I have no interest in name calling. I won't pass judgment on Highlander's political insight although when he throws around terms like "Dumocrats" so liberally it is hard to take the remainder of the posts seriously. I'm not even a Democrat, so it's hard to see how anyone more left-leaning than I would regard posts like that as anything other than inflammatory. To me that's in the same league as Donald Trump making an issue of Hillary going to the bathroom during a break. I would vote for a turnip rather than vote for Hillary but even so the fact she had to visit the bathroom isn't a political issue and to try and make it one leaves Trump wide open to the allegation that he addresses his opponent's bathroom visits because he can't address her politics.

I'm always up for a well-reasoned political discussion but use of derogatory misspellings does nothing to further discussion and tends to do little other than label the user as ignorant. Referring to a former forum owner (I'm assuming he isn't referring to this forum) as a "clown" is just more of the same kind of language that labels the writer as little more than a troll or an agitator rather than someone with anything useful to say.
 

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The word is that Hillary took so long to return to the debate because of her ego. She loathes sharing a public facility with commoners and was waiting until it was clear for her to use completely privately.

If this is true, it is yet another reason not to vote for her since she has very little respect -- and nothing in common -- with decent human beings.

And there is nothing wrong with using the term "Dumocrat." If the shoe fits, they can wear it. They certainly refer to conservatives with much stronger language than that.

Politics is not for the faint of heart. If it is too much for you, "tango," perhaps YOU are in the wrong place?

This country is literally on the brink of dissolving from the United States of America into a nightmarish labyrinth of mixed cultures that have no interest in being "American." If we stay on the course set by those "dumocrats," we will eventually turn into a tower of babble -- literally -- and sink to the level of the rest of the world.

Thus, in this day and age, point blank language is needed to call things for what they are. That is why Trump is doing so well. Americans are sick and tired of being led down the toilet by Barney Fife and want him replaced with Dirty Harry.
 

tango

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The word is that Hillary took so long to return to the debate because of her ego. She loathes sharing a public facility with commoners and was waiting until it was clear for her to use completely privately.

If this is true, it is yet another reason not to vote for her since she has very little respect -- and nothing in common -- with decent human beings.

If that can be shown to be true then it would be a valid concern. Is that known to be true, or just a rumor?

And there is nothing wrong with using the term "Dumocrat." If the shoe fits, they can wear it. They certainly refer to conservatives with much stronger language than that.

Politics is not for the faint of heart. If it is too much for you, "tango," perhaps YOU are in the wrong place?

Terms like "dumocrats" are little more than tubthumping. If you believe Democrat politics are inappropriate why not go ahead and explain why instead of throwing silly insults around? If you can explain why a political stance is bad for the country people might listen; if all you do is insult them why do you think they will pay any attention to the rest of what you write? I dislike left-leaning politics myself but have little time for people who can't be bothered to make a positive statement for their own position regardless of their political stance. I'd rather discuss politics with a Democrat who explains their position clearly, than with a Republican who has nothing to say beyond empty rhetoric and silly insults.

The problem with American politics, as far as I can see, is that there is too much in the way of silly insults on both sides. I have no problem discussing politics but I've got better things to do than engage in what is little more than a slanging match of insults - that sort of thing is better suited to men at the bar arguing over whose appendages are the largest than to discussing who should occupy the White House.

This country is literally on the brink of dissolving from the United States of America into a nightmarish labyrinth of mixed cultures that have no interest in being "American." If we stay on the course set by those "dumocrats," we will eventually turn into a tower of babble -- literally -- and sink to the level of the rest of the world.

Sadly this is just more empty rhetoric. Unless you can define what you mean by "being American" all you've got is tubthumping against the people who are Not Like Us in some way. It's quite bizarre to see such vocal elements within the country that once proclaimed "give me your huddled masses yearning to be free" now seemingly expecting everybody to conform to their idea of what it means to "be American".

Thus, in this day and age, point blank language is needed to call things for what they are. That is why Trump is doing so well. Americans are sick and tired of being led down the toilet by Barney Fife and want him replaced with Dirty Harry.

Sometimes it's better to just say it like it is. Other times a little more diplomacy is required. Trump is good at the former, although as far as diplomacy is concerned he appears to be an apocalyptic oaf as far as I can see. If you want to be a megalomaniac CEO that's one thing but on an international stage where you need to reach a consensus with other world leaders it doesn't necessarily help to go like a bull at a gate.

Lammchen says you have good political insight. At present I'm taking her word for it although so far I've seen precisely no political insight and lots of silly politically-inspired insults. It takes no insight to throw around silly insults like "Dumocrat", it takes a little more to explain what Democrat positions are foolish and why.
 

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I disagree with it. I think it's ridiculous and borders on 1930s Germany some of the things he suggests or refuses to dismiss(the database for Muslims in America, for example).

We in the West are notoriously bad at paying attention to history and learning from our mistakes. Let's hope this isn't another one.

It's disgusting what we seem to justify in times of strife. I think Muslims need Christ as much as most people, but they're still people and the overwhelming majority of them are peaceful.

If we started to apply the same standards under different circumstances to crime and assuming the because isolate areas of crime are overwhelming perpetrated by blacks that therefore all blacks are bad, it'd be different.
 

tango

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I disagree with it. I think it's ridiculous and borders on 1930s Germany some of the things he suggests or refuses to dismiss(the database for Muslims in America, for example).

We in the West are notoriously bad at paying attention to history and learning from our mistakes. Let's hope this isn't another one.

It's disgusting what we seem to justify in times of strife. I think Muslims need Christ as much as most people, but they're still people and the overwhelming majority of them are peaceful.

If we started to apply the same standards under different circumstances to crime and assuming the because isolate areas of crime are overwhelming perpetrated by blacks that therefore all blacks are bad, it'd be different.

A large part of the problem is the appeal to people who have never actually known a Real Muslim and whose only source of information about Islam is the wall-to-wall TV channels showing men with brown skin and beards waving Kalashnikovs and cutting peoples' heads off. London, that city that The Donald alleged had no-go areas where the police refused to go, has a large Muslim population. I used to live and work among a number of Muslims. I was welcomed into the home of my Muslim neighbors when I locked myself out of my house. The Muslim man who owned the local hardware store went above and beyond to help every single customer. When I needed a small gift for a Muslim acquaintance the people at my local mosque were very happy to give me some pointers regarding things to avoid to make sure my gift was suitable, and obviously appreciated the fact I'd taken the time to find out. The Muslims I worked with went about their tasks and their daily business just like everybody else. Honestly, had one guy not been concerned about avoiding pork at a team lunch I wouldn't have assumed he was a Muslim. A lady I worked with wore a headdress and avoided pork, and I noticed she fasted during Ramadan. Aside from that she wasn't significantly different from the other ladies I worked with. I walked through areas of London where huge numbers of women wore head-to-foot black clothing with just their eyes showing, and huge numbers of men had brown skin and beards. Not once did I feel unsafe, not once did anyone show any aggression towards me. But so many people have never actually met a Real Muslim so will easily believe they are mostly or entirely terrorists.

I still remember an American friend who visited me in London over the time Jean Charles de Menezes was shot on the Underground. He was most agitated when a man with brown skin and a beard got on our bus, to the point he wanted to get off. But this particular man was also wearing a turban. He wasn't a Muslim, he was a Sikh. My friend had grown up in a US city and didn't know the difference. Frankly, I find that terrifying, especially when people start tub thumping about the notion that Muslims are mostly violent people.

If we allow the government to take sweeping steps against Muslims we shouldn't be surprised when someone notices that "Christians blow up abortion clinics" and every single Christian is required to register on a central database. And I can guess where that development would take us.
 

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If we allow the government to take sweeping steps against Muslims we shouldn't be surprised when someone notices that "Christians blow up abortion clinics" and every single Christian is required to register on a central database. And I can guess where that development would take us.

I have friends on Facebook who are totally against Christians already and would love to see us go someplace else :grumble: They think we are all like Westboro Baptist church and condemn us but "love" any other type of group and stand up for their rights.
 

psalms 91

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Yes, many things have changed and the feelings towards Christians is one of them. When I was growing up if you didnt go to church you were odd but now most dont go and most dont ant to hear it
 

tango

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I have friends on Facebook who are totally against Christians already and would love to see us go someplace else :grumble: They think we are all like Westboro Baptist church and condemn us but "love" any other type of group and stand up for their rights.

... which represents the next step, if we clamor to force Muslims to be registered. Arguing that all Christians are like Westboro Baptist Church makes no more sense than arguing that all Muslims are terrorists.
 

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If that can be shown to be true then it would be a valid concern. Is that known to be true, or just a rumor?

I have no idea if it is true or a rumor. Nor do I care when someone throws insults at, or makes fun of, that criminal.

Terms like "dumocrats" are little more than tubthumping. If you believe Democrat politics are inappropriate why not go ahead and explain why instead of throwing silly insults around? If you can explain why a political stance is bad for the country people might listen; if all you do is insult them why do you think they will pay any attention to the rest of what you write? I dislike left-leaning politics myself but have little time for people who can't be bothered to make a positive statement for their own position regardless of their political stance. I'd rather discuss politics with a Democrat who explains their position clearly, than with a Republican who has nothing to say beyond empty rhetoric and silly insults.

Democrats -- more specifically, liberals -- are essentially communists or, for those who hate pointblank terms, socialists. They are against the Judeo-Christian values that founded this nation. That is why I call them DUMocrats. There is nothing wrong with insulting people who insult our nation with every step they take. When you try to force God out of our society, murder unborn children in the name of "healthcare, try to separate hardworking people from their money, and try to confiscate guns from law abiding American citizens, you are NOT a traditional, moral American and are not what this nation was created to stand for.

And I am NOT a Republican.

The problem with American politics, as far as I can see, is that there is too much in the way of silly insults on both sides. I have no problem discussing politics but I've got better things to do than engage in what is little more than a slanging match of insults - that sort of thing is better suited to men at the bar arguing over whose appendages are the largest than to discussing who should occupy the White House.

The insults splash off those who are big enough to disregard them. The problem is the ACTION taken by the leftists -- not the words that are used by either side. Are YOU an American? I ask this because your first words in the above quote seem almost like a 3rd party observation.

Sadly this is just more empty rhetoric. Unless you can define what you mean by "being American" all you've got is tubthumping against the people who are Not Like Us in some way. It's quite bizarre to see such vocal elements within the country that once proclaimed "give me your huddled masses yearning to be free" now seemingly expecting everybody to conform to their idea of what it means to "be American".

If you reread some of my comments up above, you'll get an idea of what it means to be a traditional AMERICAN. I am also very said if you are so lost that you do not have an inkling on what our nation has stood for in its first 230 years.

Sometimes it's better to just say it like it is. Other times a little more diplomacy is required. Trump is good at the former, although as far as diplomacy is concerned he appears to be an apocalyptic oaf as far as I can see. If you want to be a megalomaniac CEO that's one thing but on an international stage where you need to reach a consensus with other world leaders it doesn't necessarily help to go like a bull at a gate.

We've gone way beyond the time when we need to be "diplomatic" in terms of internal politics. Being "diplomatic" is why the nation is in the mess it is in. More and more people are waking up to this fact -- and that is why Trump is getting stronger and stronger.

Lammchen says you have good political insight. At present I'm taking her word for it although so far I've seen precisely no political insight and lots of silly politically-inspired insults. It takes no insight to throw around silly insults like "Dumocrat", it takes a little more to explain what Democrat positions are foolish and why.

It is the "insight" that I possess that fuels the comments that I make. You truly do write like a person from the outside who hasn't a clue on the state of affairs currently plaguing we people here in America. As to your the last part of your quote up above, I again suggest that you reread my earlier comments in this post.

And, if you actually are from another country, can you tell me where?
 

tango

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I have no idea if it is true or a rumor. Nor do I care when someone throws insults at, or makes fun of, that criminal.

It's good to care about getting facts right. Whatever you think of an individual it helps nobody to spread rumors about them that prove to be unfounded.

Democrats -- more specifically, liberals -- are essentially communists or, for those who hate pointblank terms, socialists. They are against the Judeo-Christian values that founded this nation. That is why I call them DUMocrats. There is nothing wrong with insulting people who insult our nation with every step they take. When you try to force God out of our society, murder unborn children in the name of "healthcare, try to separate hardworking people from their money, and try to confiscate guns from law abiding American citizens, you are NOT a traditional, moral American and are not what this nation was created to stand for.

If you look hard enough you could probably find a broader brush with which to paint.

If you truly believe that every single person who votes Democrat is a communist then I put it to you that you are part of the problem. If you can't comprehend that some people disagree with you and think that believing that package D is a better overall option than package R makes someone a communist then I have to really question whether you have any useful political insights at all.

As it happens I personally know many active Christians who vote Democrat. They don't agree with everything that comes out of the mouths of Obama, Clinton, Sanders etc (just as most people who vote Republican don't agree with everything that every high-profile Republican says), but believe that, on balance, Democrat policies are better for the nation than Republican policies. Personally I am minded to disagree, although I can see merit in some Democrat positions just as I see merit in some Republican positions.

And I am NOT a Republican.

If you don't mind me asking, what are you?

The insults splash off those who are big enough to disregard them. The problem is the ACTION taken by the leftists -- not the words that are used by either side. Are YOU an American? I ask this because your first words in the above quote seem almost like a 3rd party observation.

The insults make those throwing insults look foolish. It's a standard approach in a lot of discussions, if you can't address the arguments you attack the person making them. It's all very well saying that insults splash off people but it's pretty sad that they have to splash off at all.

I'm not an American, hence I may appear as an external observer. I don't get a vote in federal elections so my political activity at the highest level is restricted to little more than talking about it. The call of "no taxation without representation" obviously doesn't stretch as far as might be hoped.

If you reread some of my comments up above, you'll get an idea of what it means to be a traditional AMERICAN. I am also very said if you are so lost that you do not have an inkling on what our nation has stood for in its first 230 years.

I can get an idea of what you consider to be a traditional American. The trouble is things move and change, so unless you want to say that millions of Americans who disagree with you aren't American (and get into the inevitable slanging match as they accuse you of being unAmerican) you might find it useful to come up with something more coherent than "being American". The blue passport is given to all sorts, regardless of whether or not they agree with your political stance.

We've gone way beyond the time when we need to be "diplomatic" in terms of internal politics. Being "diplomatic" is why the nation is in the mess it is in. More and more people are waking up to this fact -- and that is why Trump is getting stronger and stronger.

You still seem to be missing the difference between the relentless drive to Not Risk Causing Offence and being an apocalyptic oaf. In the middle there's a whole spectrum of stances that allow people to say things as they are without being offensive about it.

It is the "insight" that I possess that fuels the comments that I make. You truly do write like a person from the outside who hasn't a clue on the state of affairs currently plaguing we people here in America. As to your the last part of your quote up above, I again suggest that you reread my earlier comments in this post.

Your "insight" appears to consist of the ability to string together a bunch of tubthumping posts that make lots of unquantified negative comments about The Other Side with little to no rationale behind why you think the way you do, what policies you support, why you support them.

And, if you actually are from another country, can you tell me where?

I'm originally from England. Having seen the way European countries operate and something of the way the US operates I can see good and bad in both systems. So, for example, I've seen how the socialised system that is the NHS in England varies from being simply amazingly good, to being so bad I wouldn't believe it myself if I hadn't seen it first hand and compared it, albeit in a limited manner, to the US system that often appears to give the choice between being bled dry by health insurance premiums or risk being bankrupted by a major illness. I've seen the difference on the street between somewhere like England that has very strict weapons control legislation to the US where people can walk around with a pistol strapped to their hip. I've seen the political campaigning styles of the UK and the US, and so on.

Having lived in cities in England I've lived and worked among Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Christians etc. I've seen how large numbers of Muslims are peaceful people who are much like anyone else except in their choice of deity and the way they express their dedication. When I talk to people in the US who appear to know nothing about Muslims other than what they see in the media I find it terrifying that people are so misinformed, but then if you've never met a member of a particular group and know nothing about them or their ways it's easy to see how you could be misinformed by a media juggernaut more intent on scaring people to sell more media than in telling people that things are pretty much OK. Sadly the whole divide-and-conquer approach seems to be working well, especially among communities that are almost if not totally white. It's easy to encourage people to forget that People Who Are Not Like Us are still people - even if they are Not Like Us in one or more respects they are probably just like us in other respects.

But hey, to save me trawling the whole thread how about you condense your thoughts on what you think makes a good American and why you think the country is going down the toilet. I've heard quite a lot of people with opinions ranging from "Obama is the best president ever, I wish we could keep him for longer" to "Obama should be in jail" and everything in between. I know people who own a small business and collect firearms who voted for Obama because they thought he was a better option than McCain or Romney and have no regrets (talking to them it turned out they were of a more libertarian persuasion and disliked every option, but considered Obama to be a lesser evil than McCain or Romney). Why not present me some of the Highlander insights I've heard about and say what you think on the subject?
 

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She had only been in this country since last year on a fiance visa. They now know they should have checked her Facebook account where she said she wanted to do Jihad.

Yes, Ruth. But our ultra LIBERAL president refused to allow our government to "profile" them and also did not want to invade their privacy. He purposefully ordered them to NOT check any social media accounts. This is the standard operating procedure of our government under Obama's administration.

Another reason why I say that liberalism is essentially the root of everything wrong in both this country and this world.

And being "politically correct" is one of the calling cards of liberalism. Because of this, those 14 people are dead and 20+ wounded.
 

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Do you agree or disagree with the Donald about banning all Muslims from entering the USA? Many say it is antireligion to do so and against all this country stands for but I am scared of the Muslims and have to give this idea some thought.

I don't know what Trump said exactly or what he proposed.

But - Islam is pretty far removed from the separation of Church and State concept, at least from I've read of various Muslim leaders preach to their followers, and while I'm not very knowledgeable on the Quran...I'm starting to learn some of it, and some of what I've read so far are some pretty scary and horrible doctrines.

Australia has had some problems with Muslims here, in part, *because* of their religion...but seriously - just look at the mess certain countries in Europe are experiencing due to mass migration of Muslims.

So for me, if a religion calls for some kind of Theocracy, and your country holds to it's constitution that prohibits Theocracy, and if said religion does not respect the Bill of Rights or basic human rights (I understand in Islam women's rights are considerably limited)...then yeah, there is a problem.

Edit: See also -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_malakat_aymanukum

Special attention: Subsections "Manumission", "Muhammad's treatment of captives" and "Sexual intercourse"

Wonderful religion.
 
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