Doubts in my Church

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as really so sorry you are having that. Maybe you need to find another church. That will treat you the way you like to be treated. Or would ask what Jesus would do if He(and He is THE Church!), was a member. To treat you as a person and a human being. And first and foremost, a brother and sister in Chri.

 

[user1234]

Yeah as really so sorry you are having that. Maybe you need to find another church. That will treat you the way you like to be treated. Or would ask what Jesus would do if He(and He is THE Church!), was a member. To treat you as a person and a human being. And first and foremost, a brother and sister in Chri.

Hi JPPT1974
Nice to see you, its a rarity. God bless your AirForce nephew, thanks to him and your family for your service!
Yes, its a shame he's having to make that decision, as it seems to be where he 'got started' so to speak, but I guess its better now, early on, than getting deeply entrenched for years with attachments, or possibly being led astray by not-so-sound doctrine. Still, it can be heavy on the heart, and I hope the Lord leads him to a great place soon. GBU. :wave:

 

[MennoSota]

Indelible Grace ministries has produced some amazing songs. They are filled with richness. IG is a Reformed Spirit led group, so they may be a nice transition.
Popular Videos - Indelible Grace: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3hrwYtlVyerw4zZedJH0rFj1Q1oElOZI
@ DHoffmann, I trust in the Sovereign God. I therefore trust that He can guide you to the church that will teach you truth as well as bring Glory to His name. I have no idea what that church will be and I don't know how long God may take to bring you to that place.
You have much to ponder and discern and it is not my place to tell you what decisions you must make. I trust that God will guide you.
Peace

 

[Andrew]

Indelible Grace ministries has produced some amazing songs. They are filled with richness. IG is a Reformed Spirit led group, so they may be a nice transition.
Popular Videos - Indelible Grace: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3hrwYtlVyerw4zZedJH0rFj1Q1oElOZI
@ DHoffmann, I trust in the Sovereign God. I therefore trust that He can guide you to the church that will teach you truth as well as bring Glory to His name. I have no idea what that church will be and I don't know how long God may take to bring you to that place.
You have much to ponder and discern and it is not my place to tell you what decisions you must make. I trust that God will guide you.
Peace

Thanks, im going to scope out some local churches but I enjoy forum suggested videos so im going to feed on that for a bit.
If my church starts throwing snakes at me im going to take it as a sign to run lol
Im convinced its just a few brothers that are a bit fanatical with their dogma, everyone is really super nice there I am just really eager to explore other denomination beliefs, i dont mean to magnify the flaws at my church btw i just dont like the fact that they believe all my relatives are going to hell if i dont save them, that feels like a cult in a very dark way, i cant sit well with that.

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[MoreCoffee]

Thanks, im going to scope out some local churches but I enjoy forum suggested videos so im going to feed on that for a bit.
If my church starts throwing snakes at me im going to take it as a sign to run lol
Im convinced its just a few brothers that are a bit fanatical with their dogma, everyone is really super nice there I am just really eager to explore other denomination beliefs, i dont mean to magnify the flaws at my church btw i just dont like the fact that they believe all my relatives are going to hell if i dont save them, that feels like a cult in a very dark way, i cant sit well with that.

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I may be wrong about this but I think it may not be so easy to get to hell unless you try really hard in this life to get there.

[Matthew 5:7 KJV] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

[Matthew 9:13 KJV] But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

[James 2:13 KJV] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

[James 3:17 KJV] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

[James 5:11 KJV] Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

[1 Peter 1:3 KJV] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[1 Peter 2:10 KJV] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

[2 John 1:3 KJV] Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

[Jude 1:2 KJV] Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

[Jude 1:21 KJV] Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

[Andrew]

I may be wrong about this but I think it may not be so easy to get to hell unless you try really hard in this life to get there.

[Matthew 5:7 KJV] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

[Matthew 9:13 KJV] But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

[James 2:13 KJV] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

[James 3:17 KJV] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

[James 5:11 KJV] Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

[1 Peter 1:3 KJV] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[1 Peter 2:10 KJV] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

[2 John 1:3 KJV] Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

[Jude 1:2 KJV] Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

[Jude 1:21 KJV] Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

I believe it, when I watched them debate with the bipolar lady is when I started having my doubts. She made more sense then they did at that moment, telling her that she cant pray for her lost loved ones and that her children have not reached salvation and at thia rate will go to hell. So by that understanding they must go that church or any Apostolic Oneness and start paying tithes too. I don't know if churches normally take people aside and explain tithing to them but its a bit pushy to not let people just start doing it on there own, i dont think a church should even ask but i dunno. Not trying to get off topic, but indeed lately I have been wondering why my church makes it seem so difficult and rare for us to get into heaven and so easy and more likely to go to hell... gross

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[user1234]

I believe it, when I watched them debate with the bipolar lady is when I started having my doubts. She made more sense then they did at that moment, telling her that she cant pray for her lost loved ones and that her children have not reached salvation and at thia rate will go to hell. So by that understanding they must go that church or any Apostolic Oneness and start paying tithes too. I don't know if churches normally take people aside and explain tithing to them but its a bit pushy to not let people just start doing it on there own, i dont think a church should even ask but i dunno. Not trying to get off topic, but indeed lately I have been wondering why my church makes it seem so difficult and rare for us to get into heaven and so easy and more likely to go to hell... gross

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Please beware of piecemealing verses from all over the place to try to form some kind of pre-decided conclusion. Some of the verses you re-quoted have NOTHING to do with 'getting into heaven easily or harder, or going to hell. Please, DH, be very careful.
You have a mix where one verse describes being bornagain ... The requirement to enter heaven. Other verses showing a form of works, that, taken out of context, APPEAR to be saying are a requirement, and other verses still which are just exhortation type blessings, like saying Peace be with you...Nothing to do with entering heaven. Watch out for stringing verses and hanging them like Christmas ornaments, okay?

Truth is, broad is the way that leads to destruction, and MANY are they that go in there.
Narrow is the way that leads to life...few find it.

The way is as narrow as One. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Way.
HE is our entrance into heaven.
NOT good works or religious teaching, rules, regulations and rituals.
Faith in what HE did FOR us is the way, and the only way, into heaven.
Its HIS Kingdom and HE's the King.

Meanwhile, the more you say here, the more cult-like that church is sounding.
The fact that youre having so much suspicion and not a whole lot of peace and security about it seems to be a good indication that you should keep praying and seeking elsewhere for it. Dont worry, God wont abandon you.....keep in His Word while you search. Galatians, Ephesians, 1st John, Romans, the Gospels but particularly John.
Get some discernment studies from Dave Hunt The Berean Call, look up Bill Alnor, Walter Martin...I have a ton of resources Id be glad to share with you, np, you can PM anytime...anyone here may. God bless your journey, remember, Jesus loves you and He is with you always.

 

[Andrew]

Please beware of piecemealing verses from all over the place to try to form some kind of pre-decided conclusion. Some of the verses you re-quoted have NOTHING to do with 'getting into heaven easily or harder, or going to hell. Please, DH, be very careful.
You have a mix where one verse describes being bornagain ... The requirement to enter heaven. Other verses showing a form of works, that, taken out of context, APPEAR to be saying are a requirement, and other verses still which are just exhortation type blessings, like saying Peace be with you...Nothing to do with entering heaven. Watch out for stringing verses and hanging them like Christmas ornaments, okay?

Truth is, broad is the way that leads to destruction, and MANY are they that go in there.
Narrow is the way that leads to life...few find it.

The way is as narrow as One. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Way.
HE is our entrance into heaven.
NOT good works or religious teaching, rules, regulations and rituals.
Faith in what HE did FOR us is the way, and the only way, into heaven.
Its HIS Kingdom and HE's the King.

Meanwhile, the more you say here, the more cult-like that church is sounding.
The fact that youre having so much suspicion and not a whole lot of peace and security about it seems to be a good indication that you should keep praying and seeking elsewhere for it. Dont worry, God wont abandon you.....keep in His Word while you search. Galatians, Ephesians, 1st John, Romans, the Gospels but particularly John.
Get some discernment studies from Dave Hunt The Berean Call, look up Bill Alnor, Walter Martin...I have a ton of resources Id be glad to share with you, np, you can PM anytime...anyone here may. God bless your journey, remember, Jesus loves you and He is with you always.

Hmm maybe you are referring to verses MC posted. Regardless I am convicted in the heart that its just not right to assume everyone outside of a certain denomination is destined to hell, that's my concern and why the church kind of gives me a yucky feeling, I knew some Amish people who thought that way. MC was comforting me with some accompanying verses, the path of righteousness is straight and narrow indeed but I don't believe its through any certain denomination such as my church claims for the most part. Thank you for your concern

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[MoreCoffee]

Mercy is what every Christian relies upon for their entry into heaven. No one is getting there by anything except mercy.

 

[Andrew]

Mercy is what every Christian relies upon for their entry into heaven. No one is getting there by anything except mercy.

Was this in discussion in the christian theology section? I read some of it through chrome but im opted out in tapatalk, hopefully the admins can let me back in regularly again considering im trinitarian now. I get what everyone was talking about now, I just saw it in the wrong light I guess. For instance it would not make much sense if Jesus was baptised and then Jesus rested on himself and then Jesus speaks saying "This is my Son...." this alone is evidence of a more complicated mystery on the unity of God, the trinity is something the apostles did not have to teach because they already separate Son and God or Father in opening letters even if they rearrange them its just less of a headache to call it a Trinity... shalom

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[Imalive]

I believe it, when I watched them debate with the bipolar lady is when I started having my doubts. She made more sense then they did at that moment, telling her that she cant pray for her lost loved ones and that her children have not reached salvation and at thia rate will go to hell. So by that understanding they must go that church or any Apostolic Oneness and start paying tithes too. I don't know if churches normally take people aside and explain tithing to them but its a bit pushy to not let people just start doing it on there own, i dont think a church should even ask but i dunno. Not trying to get off topic, but indeed lately I have been wondering why my church makes it seem so difficult and rare for us to get into heaven and so easy and more likely to go to hell... gross

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She cant pray for her lost loved ones????? Come pay your tithes. I'd say: bye bye.
Encouraging you to pray for your loved ones is about the most important thing for me to pick a church. No prayer for the lost, that's a no from me.

 

[Andrew]

She cant pray for her lost loved ones????? Come pay your tithes. I'd say: bye bye.
Encouraging you to pray for your loved ones is about the most important thing for me to pick a church. No prayer for the lost, that's a no from me.

She was asking them about her loved ones that have already passed from this world, they had convinced her that anyone who had not been baptised in his name, not repented nor received the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking tongues (basically outside the church) that they were not saved and therefore are in hell. She asked if she could at least pray for them and he said "No..... i dont know". I see it as he was so quick to answer but deep down he knew he was wrong, he then changed his argument to "only God can judge", although thats true he seems to be in limbo and therefore not qualified for debate. Bless her heart, she ask things that I wont even ask them because I read the word which can tell me more than any man can, but she is like most people, relying on outside interpretation (when both inside and outside are necessary I believe). Her humble condition reflects her heart directly and this I admire.

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[Andrew]

Also tithing is something he personally preaches about because the pastor is anointed and a son of God therefore should be able to do this full time, he gives us passages from the bible, give God your first flocks is one he goes by. Thats fine and all but the way he presented it made me very uncomfortable, gave me doubts on what I was getting involved in. He knows that I am working at a low wage and dont even have my own place because I just got out of drug abuse in which I dedicated my earnings to. They frown on those who dont give 10 percent, and I do but just not 3 times a week... I really do not believe that this is what God intended either, what about grace? He says that we will be blessed financially because we pay tithes, i dont care about that, that sounds like money worship. Wealth is important but my goodness if it breaks my wallet its not the time for that lol

Yeah so if you dont do things their way you go to hell, and if you do things their way pay your tithes... This flys way over my head.

The brother in this bible study group does this on his own accord, not ordained by the church, he is a bit fanatical but perhaps thats just what new converts are, I was a bit I think but I want to check out that church that originally saved me in the city square, maybe they will reassure me that not all Pentecostal churches act like that. I hope so because I really love this church
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[MoreCoffee]

Was this in discussion in the christian theology section? I read some of it through chrome but im opted out in tapatalk, hopefully the admins can let me back in regularly again considering im trinitarian now. I get what everyone was talking about now, I just saw it in the wrong light I guess. For instance it would not make much sense if Jesus was baptised and then Jesus rested on himself and then Jesus speaks saying "This is my Son...." this alone is evidence of a more complicated mystery on the unity of God, the trinity is something the apostles did not have to teach because they already separate Son and God or Father in opening letters even if they rearrange them its just less of a headache to call it a Trinity... shalom

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Mercy and grace get a lot of play time in Christian Theology threads so it probably is under discussion there. I like mercy. It comforts me to rest in God's mercy.

 

[Andrew]

Mercy and grace get a lot of play time in Christian Theology threads so it probably is under discussion there. I like mercy. It comforts me to rest in God's mercy.

Will you explain here a bit?
I ask because I cannot access theory.
What is your definition of mercy and how does it comfort you?

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[tango]

Also tithing is something he personally preaches about because the pastor is anointed and a son of God therefore should be able to do this full time, he gives us passages from the bible, give God your first flocks is one he goes by. Thats fine and all but the way he presented it made me very uncomfortable, gave me doubts on what I was getting involved in. He knows that I am working at a low wage and dont even have my own place because I just got out of drug abuse in which I dedicated my earnings to. They frown on those who dont give 10 percent, and I do but just not 3 times a week... I really do not believe that this is what God intended either, what about grace? He says that we will be blessed financially because we pay tithes, i dont care about that, that sounds like money worship. Wealth is important but my goodness if it breaks my wallet its not the time for that lol

Yeah so if you dont do things their way you go to hell, and if you do things their way pay your tithes... This flys way over my head.

The brother in this bible study group does this on his own accord, not ordained by the church, he is a bit fanatical but perhaps thats just what new converts are, I was a bit I think but I want to check out that church that originally saved me in the city square, maybe they will reassure me that not all Pentecostal churches act like that. I hope so because I really love this church
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The problem with tithing is that it's an Old Testament construct that is very often misused in this day and age.

In the time the law on tithing was given the priests were not allowed to work. Of the 12 tribes 11 were workers and 1 were priests. If 11 tribes gave 10% each then effectively 11 tribes had 90% of "normal" crops and the priests had 110%, which was enough for them and a surplus they could distribute among those in need. These days there is nothing to prevent a pastor from taking a secular job.

Of course if a church wants the pastor to be a full-time member of staff they have to be willing to pay an appropriate wage because the pastor still has to provide for his family. That said it's very easy for tithing to become a means to hammer the poor while letting the rich off lightly, and creating a sense of entitlement among church leadership. If you're making $15,000/year then finding $1,500 out of that to give to the church (or to give to anyone) is difficult. If you're making $15,000/week chances are it's much easier to find 10% to give away. If the minister starts to get the idea that he's got a few wealthy people in his congregation so he's going to be doing well because he's inherently entitled to 10% of the combined salary of the lawyer, the doctor and the hedge fund manager, he may need to have his expectations realigned with reality.

Personally when I see the idea, whatever fancy form of words are used to present it, that if I "sow into a ministry" I will reap some kind of reward I regard that as a good sign to not give them any money at all. When I give money I regard the effect on my personal finances to be much the same as if I took a bundle of cash and set fire to it. I've given it away, it's gone, I don't have it any more and get no financial return from it. If I want a financial return I'll invest it, not give it away. Frankly that kind of talk just puts me in mind of the likes of the Crystal Cathedral man (I think he was Robert Schueller but can't be 100% sure) who was on TV encouraging people to send their donations that were apparently desperately needed, while he was wearing a suit that must have run to thousands of dollars and was standing in front of a stack of flowers taller than himself that probably ran to several thousand more dollars. I'd rather give my money to a charity where it goes to those in need, rather than wondering how much of my donation got spent on a new pair of shoes for the presenter.

If they are truly expecting you to attend church three times a week, and give 10% of your income each time (i.e. 30% in total) the advice I'd give you is to leave quickly, and not give them another dime. One thing I greatly respected about one of my former churches (I only left the church because I moved away from the area) was that the pastor had no idea who gave what to the church. He wanted it that way, because it meant he could prioritise people based on their need rather than how much they gave - he didn't want to be dealing with one person who had a great and immediate need, but feel pressure to give more attention to someone with a much lesser need but a much higher level of giving.


ETA: If you are a Christian you are also a son of God. Don't be fooled into thinking the pastor is some kind of "special child of God". Take a look at John 1:12. One would hope the pastor is anointed but if he's pulling rank with a claim of anointing (especially if he's also using verses like Ps 105:15 to avoid being questioned or challenged) then I'd personally stop listening to him. Pulling that kind of stunt with Scripture seems like a good sign that your pastor is more like a cult leader than a pastor.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Will you explain here a bit?
I ask because I cannot access theory.
What is your definition of mercy and how does it comfort you?

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Mercy is God forgiving my wrongdoing it is God being kind to me when I am not kind to others or to him it is God's people being kind to others who society has lost patience with it is a kind word given in reply to a harsh one. In short mercy is how goodness shows its face to people who do not deserve to see it. And mercy comforts me whenever I think of how much I need it and how generous God is to give it and what a blessing it is when people show it.

 

[user1234]

Will you explain here a bit?
I ask because I cannot access theory.
What is your definition of mercy and how does it comfort you?

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This one's pretty easy, if you dont mind me jumping in on it, young brother.

Grace: God giving us what we dont deserve.

Mercy: God NOT giving us what WE DO deserve.

They seem similar, but you'll see in all things, gifts or withholdings, grace preceeds them.

We dont deserve salvation...He gives us salvation. Grace.
We dont deserve Jesus...He gives us Jesus. Grace.
We dont deserve (Anything, really) He gives us all things. Grace.

We DO deserve hell. He doesnt give us hell. Mercy.

But even with Mercy, thats something He gives us that we dont deserve...
He gives us His Mercy, even though we dont deserve it. Thats grace.

Grace always preceeds, not follows. All good gifts come from God first.
He's the initiator, so it's really all of grace.
He gives us mercy by His grace.
He gives us peace by His grace.
He gives us joy by His grace.

He even gives us love by His grace, though the two are interconnected.
God is love, and BECAUSE of His love, He gives us grace.
And He gives us His love by His grace.

I'm sure mcoffe will want to answer for himself, but I guess we can ALL take comfort in Gods mercy...more than just going Whew! glad we didnt get what we deserve.
But knowing that His mercies are new every morning, we can take comfort.
If we stumble or mess up, we dont get what we deserve.
His mercy endures forever.

 

[MoreCoffee]

...

I'm sure mcoffe will want to answer for himself, ..

I did answer for myself about two hours before you answered in the post immediately before yours.

 

[user1234]

I did answer for myself about two hours before you answered in the post immediately before yours.

yes you did, didnt you. :cheer2: and since I was in the process of typing and then was distracted and pulled away for a bit and then returned to typing and then submitted my post i was not aware that you had answered in the interum was I but I suppose I could have checked and then come back to the window to submit my post but I didnt think it was that important so I just went ahead and posted what I had ever-so impulsive and haphazardly-like naughty naughty :no: .