Common Figure of Speech?

[Lees]

It's not me that's using any special math. I can count to 3 and to 6. 3 days + 3 nights = 6 periods of time. One simply does not have that between Friday evening and Sunday while it was still dark. I notice you avoided the question about whether you believe in the Fri-Sunday timeline for Christ's death and resurrection.

Of course it is you using 'special math'. You have to because you don't believe what Jesus said in (Matt. 12:40)

For the exact time frame in which the three days and nights were accomplished, that is immaterial. It was accomplished. Just becaue you say it wasn't, means nothing.

I believe that the timeline from Christ's death to His resurrection was three days and three nights, just like Scripture says.

I noticed you avoided my question concerning Jonah. Do you have any special math for his being three days and nights in the belly of the whale?

Lees

 

[Stravinsk]

Of course it is you using 'special math'. You have to because you don't believe what Jesus said in (Matt. 12:40)

For the exact time frame in which the three days and nights were accomplished, that is immaterial. It was accomplished. Just becaue you say it wasn't, means nothing.

I never said it wasn't accomplished. However, I clearly don't believe in the traditional Friday-Sunday time frame. So far you have continued to avoid the question of whether you do. If you say it's "immaterial", then I'm going to take that as an indication that you do not, unless you state otherwise.

I believe that the timeline from Christ's death to His resurrection was three days and three nights, just like Scripture says.

I noticed you avoided my question concerning Jonah. Do you have any special math for his being three days and nights in the belly of the whale?

Lees

Nope. It's Friday-Sunday timeline people that need the special math, not me. As for Jonah, I believe the story. 3 days, 3 nights, just like it says.

 

[Lees]

I never said it wasn't accomplished. However, I clearly don't believe in the traditional Friday-Sunday time frame. So far you have continued to avoid the question of whether you do. If you say it's "immaterial", then I'm going to take that as an indication that you do not, unless you state otherwise.


Nope. It's Friday-Sunday timeline people that need the special math, not me. As for Jonah, I believe the story. 3 days, 3 nights, just like it says.

Really? So you, a Deist believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the third day?

I have no problem with the Friday through Sunday time frame concerning the Crucifixion, Death, and Resurrection. But I look at it believing (Matt. 12:40). I do believe that there is more to know. But others have accounted for the three days and nights through various methods. And I don't discount those, as you do with 'special math' accusation.

(Luke 24:46) "...Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:"

(John 2:19) "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

Note here in (John 2:19) how that the Temple building was being discussed. Yet we are told Christ's response was to His Resurrection. (2:21-22). Though we are told that, Christ didn't tell the Jews that. He just said it and went on. He just left them in their unbelief. If He had told them and explained that He meant it concerning His Resurrection, do you think they would become believers? Of course not. Point being, there was more to what Christ said.

My point is this, just because you and others think, because you can count to 3, that (Matt. 12:40) can't be true, that is just your unbelief. Even if I had no explanation, I would still believe it, and continue seeking one. You and others in your unbelief instead want to use it as a reason to cast doubt on what is written, believing you have found a perfect weapon against the claims of Christians.

Your answer concerning Jonah is well scripted by you. But do you believe it really happened just as it said?

(Mark 16:9) "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week,...." Scripture is clear here that Jesus rose early on the first day of the week. Correct?

Lees

 

[Stravinsk]

Really? So you, a Deist believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the third day?

I do.

I have no problem with the Friday through Sunday time frame concerning the Crucifixion, Death, and Resurrection. But I look at it believing (Matt. 12:40). I do believe that there is more to know. But others have accounted for the three days and nights through various methods. And I don't discount those, as you do with 'special math' accusation.

(Luke 24:46) "...Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:"

(John 2:19) "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

Note here in (John 2:19) how that the Temple building was being discussed. Yet we are told Christ's response was to His Resurrection. (2:21-22). Though we are told that, Christ didn't tell the Jews that. He just said it and went on. He just left them in their unbelief. If He had told them and explained that He meant it concerning His Resurrection, do you think they would become believers? Of course not. Point being, there was more to what Christ said.

My point is this, just because you and others think, because you can count to 3, that (Matt. 12:40) can't be true, that is just your unbelief. Even if I had no explanation, I would still believe it, and continue seeking one. You and others in your unbelief instead want to use it as a reason to cast doubt on what is written, believing you have found a perfect weapon against the claims of Christians.

It is the perfect weapon against the false calendar. You claim to "believe" minus an explanation. You hold fast to the words of Christ, you say, a loyal servant, an unwavering devotee, and yet your Friday-Sunday "3 days and 3 nights" must necessarily be a mystery to you. It must somehow be true, because ...why? Does your Savior ever once predict the Sabbath will be replaced? Please cite me chapter and verse, and not from the words of Saul/Paul. Please show me where Christ predicts, and approves of, a changing of one of the 10 commandments. You cannot. Because it is not there.

The Christ, whom you claim to follow, tells you to obey the commandments. He tells his followers to pray that their flight "not be in winter or the sabbath day". Why? Why use such wording if a great change were to come concerning the sabbath? Is it because, all around you, Christians, Catholic and Protestant alike, support honoring Christ on the 1st day, the so called "day of the Sun"?

Surely you are aware of the many Scriptures that condemn Sun worship, or those who honor the Sun as God? Sun worship is at the heart of the Egyptian pantheon, in case you are unaware.

Your answer concerning Jonah is well scripted by you. But do you believe it really happened just as it said?

(Mark 16:9) "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week,...." Scripture is clear here that Jesus rose early on the first day of the week. Correct?

Lees

Scripture is not so clear. Your English translation may be clear, but the Greek is not. The phrase translated "First day of the week" is actually literally translated "One (day) of the Sabbaths". That phrase does not indicate the specific day on which Christ rose. However, anyone who is familiar with the Genesis account of Creation would understand what day it is.

 

[rstrats]

That is no need for 'examples' to be given.

So you're saying that if someone makes an assertion about something that there is no legitimate reason for them to support that assertion - in the case of this topic that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur?

Examples are for 'your' need. For your 'argument'.

To what argument are you referring?

Do you require 'examples' for Jonah being in the belly of the whale for three days and nights?

Absolutely not. I don't know where you're getting that idea?

So, seems like here is an example of 'three days and nights' being used as a reference. Not that it is needed, but it is an 'example', ....isn't it?

It may be a reference/example for a different issue but not for the issue of this topic.

So, do you belive the account of Jonah and the whale?

As I said previously, I have no belief one way or the other with regard to the reality of the story. But at any rate, it is irrelevant to this topic.

 

[rstrats]

I have no problem with the Friday through Sunday time frame concerning the Crucifixion, Death, and Resurrection.

So do you account for the lack of a third night by saying that the Messiah was using a common figure of speech or colloquialism?

 

[Lees]

I do.


It is the perfect weapon against the false calendar. You claim to "believe" minus an explanation. You hold fast to the words of Christ, you say, a loyal servant, an unwavering devotee, and yet your Friday-Sunday "3 days and 3 nights" must necessarily be a mystery to you. It must somehow be true, because ...why? Does your Savior ever once predict the Sabbath will be replaced? Please cite me chapter and verse, and not from the words of Saul/Paul. Please show me where Christ predicts, and approves of, a changing of one of the 10 commandments. You cannot. Because it is not there.

The Christ, whom you claim to follow, tells you to obey the commandments. He tells his followers to pray that their flight "not be in winter or the sabbath day". Why? Why use such wording if a great change were to come concerning the sabbath? Is it because, all around you, Christians, Catholic and Protestant alike, support honoring Christ on the 1st day, the so called "day of the Sun"?

Surely you are aware of the many Scriptures that condemn Sun worship, or those who honor the Sun as God? Sun worship is at the heart of the Egyptian pantheon, in case you are unaware.


Scripture is not so clear. Your English translation may be clear, but the Greek is not. The phrase translated "First day of the week" is actually literally translated "One (day) of the Sabbaths". That phrase does not indicate the specific day on which Christ rose. However, anyone who is familiar with the Genesis account of Creation would understand what day it is.

Since when do Deist's start believing in the resurrection of Christ?

I have no problem with the Sabbath. Or the first day of the week.

Concerning (Mark 16:9), the first day of the week is what it said. And it is clear the Sabbath has passed. (Mark 16:1-2) "And when the sabbath was past....And very early in the morning the first day of the week....." Scripture is clear. Jesus rose on the morning of the first day of the week. Correct?

Lees

 

[Stravinsk]

Since when do Deist's start believing in the resurrection of Christ?

I have no problem with the Sabbath. Or the first day of the week.

Concerning (Mark 16:9), the first day of the week is what it said. And it is clear the Sabbath has passed. (Mark 16:1-2) "And when the sabbath was past....And very early in the morning the first day of the week....." Scripture is clear. Jesus rose on the morning of the first day of the week. Correct?

Lees

Jesus did not rise on the first day of the week in my belief. He arose on the 3rd day of the week, as He said. This 3rd day of the week coincides with the 3rd day of Creation. The day that the waters receded, and plants arose. There is no Sun nor Moon on this 3rd day. They are created on the 4th day. The 3rd day of Creation coincides with the story of Jonah, as Jonah is expelled from the whale (and the sea) onto dry land, which only appears on the 3rd day. This is the story to which Christ alludes......the 3rd day, which occurs "after 3 days and 3 nights". The 3rd day is the day, according to Genesis, where dry land appears, and there is the first sign of life arising from the ground.

The "first day of the weak" - the day most Christians observe, is the day where light is born. Lucifer literally means "bearer of light". Which angel do you imagine bore the light on the first day?

 

[Lees]

So you're saying that if someone makes an assertion about something that there is no legitimate reason for them to support that assertion - in the case of this topic that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur?

To what argument are you referring?

Absolutely not. I don't know where you're getting that idea?

It may be a reference/example for a different issue but not for the issue of this topic.

As I said previously, I have no belief one way or the other with regard to the reality of the story. But at any rate, it is irrelevant to this topic.

This is your argument, not that of Christians. We who are Christian are not saying "when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur", as you claim. That is why I said it is your argument.

Why don't you require examples of the day and night references to Jonah. (Jonah 1:17) How can you account for them? It is an issue for this topic as (Matt. 12:40) clearly identifies Jonahs three days and nights with Jesus three days and nights.

It is not irrelevant. Are you saying Christ's story is relevant? Why? Because you believe you can find fault?

So do you account for the lack of a third night by saying that the Messiah was using a common figure of speech or colloquialism?

No, I believe Jesus meant what He said.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Jesus did not rise on the first day of the week in my belief. He arose on the 3rd day of the week, as He said. This 3rd day of the week coincides with the 3rd day of Creation. The day that the waters receded, and plants arose. There is no Sun nor Moon on this 3rd day. They are created on the 4th day. The 3rd day of Creation coincides with the story of Jonah, as Jonah is expelled from the whale (and the sea) onto dry land, which only appears on the 3rd day. This is the story to which Christ alludes......the 3rd day, which occurs "after 3 days and 3 nights". The 3rd day is the day, according to Genesis, where dry land appears, and there is the first sign of life arising from the ground.

The "first day of the weak" - the day most Christians observe, is the day where light is born. Lucifer literally means "bearer of light". Which angel do you imagine bore the light on the first day?

Again, when did Deist's start believing in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Well, you are free to believe as you wish. (Mark 16:1-2) and (Mark 16:9) says He did.

Lees

 

[rstrats]

Deleted - duplicate post.

 

[rstrats]

This is your argument, not that of Christians. We who are Christian are not saying "when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur", as you claim. That is why I said it is your argument.

If you believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week, and think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period, then you are in effect saying that it was common to say that a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a night time could occur.

Why don't you require examples of the day and night references to Jonah. (Jonah 1:17) How can you account for them?

Because that's an issue for a different topic. Why don't you start one?

It is an issue for this topic as (Matt. 12:40) clearly identifies Jonahs three days and nights with Jesus three days and nights.

Again, that is not what this topic is about.

It is not irrelevant. Are you saying Christ's story is relevant? Why?

It isn't relevant for the purpose of this topic.

 

[Lees]

If you believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week, and think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period, then you are in effect saying that it was common to say that a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a night time could occur.

Because that's an issue for a different topic. Why don't you start one?

Again, that is not what this topic is about.

It isn't relevant for the purpose of this topic.

The three days and nights of Jonah are not an issue for a different topic. It is directly related to this topic. In your post #(1), 4 years ago, (Matt.12:40) is the very first line of your argument. Thus it is all about what the topic is about. It is relevant. I see now why you don't give the Scripture reference.

So, again, I ask you...how do you account for the three days and nights that Jonah was in the belly of the whale? It's your argument.

I haven't said a 'night time would be involved when no night time occurred'.

Lees

 

[rstrats]

This is your argument, not that of Christians. We who are Christian are not saying "when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur", as you claim. That is why I said it is your argument.

Why don't you require examples of the day and night references to Jonah. (Jonah 1:17) How can you account for them? It is an issue for this topic as (Matt. 12:40) clearly identifies Jonahs three days and nights with Jesus three days and nights.

It is not irrelevant. Are you saying Christ's story is relevant? Why? Because you believe you can find fault?



No, I believe Jesus meant what He said.

Lees

Again, when did Deist's start believing in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Well, you are free to believe as you wish. (Mark 16:1-2) and (Mark 16:9) says He did.

Lees

The three days and nights of Jonah are not an issue for a different topic. It is directly related to this topic.

It may be related but it is not relative to it. You think it is. Why?

In your post #(1), 4 years ago, (Matt.12:40) is the very first line of your argument. Thus it is all about what the topic is about.

Again, what do you think my "argument" is?

So, again, I ask you...how do you account for the three days and nights that Jonah was in the belly of the whale?

Account for what with regard to Jonah's time in the fish?

I haven't said a 'night time would be involved when no night time occurred'.

Then this topic does not apply to you.

 

[Lees]

It may be related but it is not relative to it. You think it is. Why?

Again, what do you think my "argument" is?

Account for what with regard to Jonah's time in the fish?

Then this topic does not apply to you.

I just told you. Post #(133). You base your argument on (Matt. 12:40). Again, see post #(1).

Again, see post #(1).

Account for the three days and nights that Jonah was in the belly of the whale, or fish. It is your argument. You base your argument on Jonahs experience.

Oh gee...that is handy. You make sure those who can debate with you must first agree with you. What a warped mind.

Lees

 

[rstrats]

I just told you. Post #(133). You base your argument on (Matt. 12:40).

But you haven't said what you think the "argument" is.

You make sure those who can debate with you must first agree with you.

Agree with me about what?

Lees

 

[Lees]

But you haven't said what you think the "argument" is.

Agree with me about what?

See again, post #(1). See again, post #(133). See again, post #(135).

When you say to me this 'topic doesn't apply to me', based upon what you say the argument is, means one must agree with your argument first before replying. As I said, a warped manipulation, mind.

I told you that I never said no night time would be involved when no night time didn't occur, which is what you're saying. In other words i disagree with you. But I don't accept what you are basing your argument on. But what you're saying, is if I don't accept what you're saying, then I shouldn't reply. Ridiculous.

Lees

 

[rstrats]

When you say to me this 'topic doesn't apply to me', based upon what you say the argument is, means one must agree with your argument

And I ask again, to what argument are you referring? You still haven't said.

I told you that I never said no night time would be involved when no night time didn't occur

I haven't said that you did.

In other words i disagree with you

Disagree about what? I don't understand what you're referring to?

Lees

 

[Lees]

And I ask again, to what argument are you referring? You still haven't said.

I haven't said that you did.

Disagree about what? I don't understand what you're referring to?

You stated that Christians account for a third night when no night is there. I said, that is not true. You said then it doesn't apply to you. But it does apply to me in that I disagree with your statement.

So, account for the 3 days and nights Jonah was in the belly of the fish. That is the basis of your argument in your post #(1). You based it upon (Matt. 12:40)

'Pleading' ignorance and trying to avoid it won't make it go away.

Lees

 

[rstrats]

You stated that Christians account for a third night when no night is there.

I never said that.

So, account for the 3 days and nights Jonah was in the belly of the fish.

And I ask you again, account for "what" with regard to the 3 days and 3 nights that Jonah was in the belly of the fish? And anyways, what has that got to do with this topic?

That is the basis of your argument in your post #(1). You based it upon (Matt. 12:40)

Again, to what argument are you referring?