Acts 2:38-39

[donadams]

“This promise”

foes anyone know what scripture is referred to here? Somewhere in the OT I would think.

thanks

 

[1689Dave]

“This promise”

foes anyone know what scripture is referred to here? Somewhere in the OT I would think.

thanks

“And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.” Luke 24:49 (KJV 1900)

“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” John 14:26 (KJV 1900)

“And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” Acts 1:4–5 (KJV 1900)

“And it shall come to pass afterward, That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids In those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, Blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, Before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: For in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, As the LORD hath said, And in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.” Joel 2:28–32 (KJV 1900)

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” Acts 1:8 (KJV 1900)

 

[MoreCoffee]

“This promise”

does anyone know what scripture is referred to here? Somewhere in the OT I would think.

thanks

"For the promise - That is, the promise respecting the particular thing of which he was speaking - the influences of the Holy Spirit. This promise he had adduced in the beginning of his discourse Act 2:17, and he now applies it to them. As the Spirit was promised to descend on Jews and their sons and daughters, it was applicable to them in the circumstances in which they then were. The only hope of lost sinners is in the promises of God, and the only thing that can give comfort to a soul that is convicted of sin is the hope that God will pardon and save."

"As the Spirit was promised to descend on Jews and their sons and daughters" -

But this is what was spoken of by the prophet Joel: "And this shall be: in the last days, says the Lord, I will pour out, from my Spirit, upon all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy. And your youths shall see visions, and your elders shall dream dreams. And certainly, upon my men and women servants in those days, I will pour out from my Spirit, and they shall prophesy. And I will bestow wonders in heaven above, and signs on earth below: blood and fire and the vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the great and manifest day of the Lord arrives. And this shall be: whoever shall invoke the name of the Lord will be saved."​

Acts 2:16-21 quoting from Joel 2:28-32. This is not quoted literally, either from the Hebrew or the Septuagint. The substance, however, is preserved.

 

[donadams]

I found it, ez 35:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[Albion]

I found it, ez 35:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Basically, what all the historic branches of Christianity hold to be true about the sacrament of Baptism, wouldn't you say?

That's in contrast to the more recent view of some people that Baptism's just a gesture that we act out in order for us to show God something or other!

 

[donadams]

Basically, what all the historic branches of Christianity hold to be true about the sacrament of Baptism, wouldn't you say?

That's in contrast to the more recent view of some people that Baptism's just a gesture that we act out in order for us to show God something or other!

Yes thanks
Also do you see Jn 3 as having to do with baptismal regeneration?

 

[Albion]

Yes thanks
Also do you see Jn 3 as having to do with baptismal regeneration?

Analogies from Scripture are always subject to second-guessing, but on balance, I'd say yes.

For certain, the Fundamentalist's interpretation of Christ's words as being a reference to physical birth doesn't hold up. And then too, this is only one passage in the New Testament that supports the conventional view concerning Baptism, although it seems to be the one that many people turn to immediately whenever the topic arises.

 

[1689Dave]

Analogies from Scripture are always subject to second-guessing, but on balance, I'd say yes.

For certain, the Fundamentalist's interpretation of Christ's words as being a reference to physical birth doesn't hold up. And then too, this is only one passage in the New Testament that supports the conventional view concerning Baptism, although it seems to be the one that many people turn to immediately whenever the topic arises.

Why would John go to all of this trouble if "sprinkling or "pouring" would do?

“And John also was baptizing in Ænon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.” John 3:23 (KJV 1900)

AENON (PLACE) [Gk Ainon (Αἰνον)]. John the Baptist baptized at this well-watered site along the Jordan River.

Pattengale, J. A. (1992). Aenon (Place). In D. N. Freedman (Ed.), The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (Vol. 1, p. 87). Doubleday.

 

[Albion]

Why would John go to all of this trouble if "sprinkling or "pouring" would do?

All what trouble?

“And John also was baptizing in Ænon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.” John 3:23 (KJV 1900)

AENON (PLACE) [Gk Ainon (Αἰνον)]. John the Baptist baptized at this well-watered site along the Jordan River.

Pattengale, J. A. (1992). Aenon (Place). In D. N. Freedman (Ed.), The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (Vol. 1, p. 87). Doubleday.

John was baptizing in the way that many other Hebrew revivalists were baptizing at that point in history. People were going through a ritual that symbolized their intention to turn back to God, etc.

But the fact that rivers were used doesn't tell us anything about the mode of baptism. There is nothing about using the River Jordan, in John's case, that indicates the baptism was by immersion or if that even matters.

 

[1689Dave]

All what trouble?

John was baptizing in the way that many other Hebrew revivalists were baptizing at that point in history. People were going through a ritual that symbolized their intention to turn back to God, etc.

But the fact that rivers were used doesn't tell us anything about the mode of baptism. There is nothing about using the River Jordan, in John's case, that indicates the baptism was by immersion or if that even matters.

Why does the NT not mention infant baptism or baptism in any other way than of believers in the name of Jesus Christ by immersion?

 

[Albion]

Why does the NT not mention infant baptism or baptism in any other way than of believers in the name of Jesus Christ by immersion?

Of course it DOES mention what you say it does not.

Even die-hard Baptist types normally try to find a way of talking around those "mentions" in Scripture, but you simply pretend that they don't exist...and this is coming from a self-styled Bible expert!

 

[1689Dave]

Of course it DOES mention what you say it does not.

Even die-hard Baptist types normally try to find a way of talking around those "mentions" in Scripture, but you simply pretend that they don't exist...and this is coming from a self-styled Bible expert!

Quote it.

 

[Albion]

Quote it.

Let me help you out and shorten the routine for the benefit of other readers.

1. You begin by claiming that there is NO mention in the BIble of infant baptism or any mode of baptism other than immersion.

2. I say you are mistaken on both accounts.

3. You reply with a two-word challenge that would send me out to compile a long post with Bible quotations, explanations, and etc. proving you wrong.

4. You then repeat your initial claim without rebutting my explanations and evidence.

So now that we have that out of the way, the New Testament DOES INDEED support baptism without an age requirement and DOES NOT specify that immersion is the only way to do it.

But as for proving it, I remind you that you have been part of other discussions on these very topics, so we all know very well that you are familiar with what the Scriptural evidence is. That's already been done for you several times over.

However, if you want to try to prove that there is in the New Testament 1) any age limit or requirement given for people to be baptized...go ahead. And the same goes for finding 2) any command that it be only done by immersion.

I'll wait.

 

[1689Dave]

Let me help you out and shorten the routine for the benefit of other readers.

1. You begin by claiming that there is NO mention in the BIble of infant baptism or any mode oif baptism other than immersion.

2. I say you are mistaken on both accounts.

3. You reply with a two-word challenge that would send me out to compile a long post with Bible quotations, explanations, and etc. proving you wrong.

4. You then repeat your initial claim without rebutting my explanations and evidence.

So now that we have that out of the way, the New Testament DOES INDEED support baptism without an age requirement and DOES NOT not specify that immersion is the only way to do it.

But as for proving it, I remind you that you have been part of other discussions on these very topics, so we all know very well that you are familiar with what the Scriptural evidence is. It's already been done.

However, if you want to try to prove that there is in the New Testament any age limit or requirement given for people to be baptized...go ahead. And the same goes for finding any command that it be only done by immersion.

I'll wait.

So you cannot find scripture to establish your claim?

 

[Albion]

I'm still waiting for you to make a case for the baptismal regulations you stand by.

YOU started this exchange by making two claims about Baptism. It is up to you to substantiate the claims, if you can. Simply making them proves nothing. And as I said in closing my previous reply, you need to prove from the NT that there is an age limit or restriction for Baptism and, also, that there is any directive saying that it can only be done by immersion. If you cannot, then there is nothing to discuss.

 

[1689Dave]

I'm still waiting for you to make a case for the baptismal regulations you stand by.

YOU started this exchange by making two claims about Baptism. It is up to you to substantiate the claims, if you can. Simply making them proves nothing. And as I said in closing my previous reply, you need to prove from the NT that there is an age limit or restriction for Baptism and, also, that there is any directive saying that it can only be done by immersion. If you cannot, then there is nothing to discuss.

Prove from scripture I'm wrong.

 

[Lanman87]

And as I said in closing my previous reply, you need to prove from the NT that there is an age limit or restriction for Baptism

I don't really want to have a dog in this fight but just a point of clarification.

I've heard some people say that baptist make people wait until they are an adult or some arbitrary age like 14 before they can be baptized. I've been in dozens of baptist churches in my life and witnessed hundreds of baptisms. I have never heard of an "age limit" being taught anywhere.

What baptist do have is a "faith restriction". Which is the belief that only those who have professed to have come to faith in Christ are to be baptized. The vast majority of baptisms in Baptist churches are the baptism of children, usually, but not limited to, the ages of 6 and up. I've seen several studies that show if someone is raised in a baptist church and do not profess faith by the age of 17 then the odds are that they never will. Most adult baptisms in the Baptist church are new converts who either weren't raised in the Baptist church or who are totally unchurched and came to faith after hearing the Gospel.

 

[Albion]

I don't really want to have a dog in this fight but just a point of clarification.

I've heard some people say that baptist make people wait until they are an adult or some arbitrary age like 14 before they can be baptized. I've been in dozens of baptist churches in my life and witnessed hundreds of baptisms. I have never heard of an "age limit" being taught anywhere.

By "age limit" I/we are referring to the exclusion of some people on account of their age. While it's probably more common to think of an age limit (for anything) as requiring the candidate to have achieved, more or less, a certain age in order to be eligible, the opposite does happen sometimes.

You are right that Baptists require a person to be "of age," meaning adult or what might pass for having an adult's understanding, so there is no fixed age EXCEPT that it cannot include young children.

Some Baptist churches require the person to be 13 or so (about the same age as is traditional for Confirmations in churches which have that ceremony), but it's not uncommon for children, with a child's limited (or insufficient?) understanding of what's going on, to be baptized at, say 10 or even 8, but never, never young children.

All of this is entirely arbitrary and none of it is uniform across the Baptist and Baptistic churches EXCEPT that young children are prohibited from membership in Christ's church.

What baptist do have is a "faith restriction".

If you prefer to call it that, I have no objection.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Baptist insistence on submersion and adulthood are not biblical.

 

[Lanman87]

Some Baptist churches require the person to be 13 or so (about the same age as is traditional for Confirmations in churches which have that ceremony), but it's not uncommon for children, with a child's limited (or insufficient?) understanding of what's going on, to be baptized at, say 10 or even 8, but never, never young children.

I was a member of the largest non-Catholic denomination in the United States, the Southern Baptist, for most of my life. I never heard age and baptism uttered in the same sentence.

My objection to the term "age restriction" is it makes it seem like age is the deciding factor for a baptismal candidate. Age is never the question. Faith is always the question. Does the person making a profession of faith have an elementary understanding of sin, belief/trust in Christ, and the need for forgiveness. If they do then they are candidates for baptism. It doesn't matter if they are six or sixty.

You would be surprised how God works in the hearts of 4 and 5 year olds to bring them to faith. I myself, remember laying in bed at night when I was five or six years old asking God to forgive me of my sins. At that point I had faith. It was a childlike faith but it was faith nevertheless.


There may be some baptist churches that require people to be 13 or so in the world. It is a large world. However, it is not the norm.