Being overweight

[Jazzy]

What is the worst thing about being overweight?

 

[Lamb]

The worst thing about being overweight is the stress it puts on the body, especially organs such as the heart.

 

[tango]

I find it curious how difficult it can be to buy clothes that fit, that are designed for any kind of activity.

Obviously most people end up overweight due to a lack of activity but it's really not helpful if you're trying to lose weight and every which way you can't find anything the right size.

I hiked in shorts for a long time because my hiking pants were too tight and I couldn't find any bigger pairs. It restricted my options because I didn't want to find a trail was overgrown because of the risk of ticks.

It's good to be able to fit into regular clothes again.

 

[Stravinsk]

The most overweight I've been was a few years into marriage. As a single person, I used to balance my eating (fatty and rich things) with exercise and healthier meals. My spouse did neither and for a while I got into the habit of not only eating out a lot but when at home eating too many low-fiber/high meat meals, plus soda. I didn't even drink alcohol at the time.

The worst part about this was being tired a lot, having generally low energy, getting sick more frequently and landing strange infections like one that I got in my ear. A nasty fungus that wouldn't go away. Top that off with strained bowel movements mixed with blood. Yeah. I finally woke up to myself and started eating more salads and slowing down on all the fast food and fatty meat. That was 2 decades ago. I've never reached that level of weight since.

 

[ValleyGal]

The worst thing for me about being overweight are the assumptions and judgement people make about why I am overweight. People think it's as simple as calories in, calories burned. But as research shows, it is much more complex than that because each body metabolizes certain things differently. Just think of all the additives, preservatives, pesticides, chemicals, hormones, etc that are added to all but certified organic foods. Organic foods are also very expensive, so people who have little money end up spending it on foods that are really unhealthy and little more than hunger fillers.

For me, though, I hate the judgement. I eat mostly healthy, but I have a genetic (there are 3 places in the genome, all on the same chromosome) condition called lipedema, that makes it practically impossible to lose any weight that I gain, and there is a difference in colour and texture between lipedema fat and regular fat. I have had 3 surgical treatments so far, and will need two more. Recently I had to see a doctor who is not my regular, who asked repeatedly (about 8 times) through the 5-minute checkup whether I am diabetic, and he told me to lose weight. I am healthy, dammit! My blood levels are all normal. All of them. I hate having to justify myself to people who don't matter, and I hate the judgement.... even from doctors, who misdiagnose women with lipedema as simply obese with a simple cure: lose weight.

 

[tango]

The worst thing for me about being overweight are the assumptions and judgement people make about why I am overweight. People think it's as simple as calories in, calories burned. But as research shows, it is much more complex than that because each body metabolizes certain things differently. Just think of all the additives, preservatives, pesticides, chemicals, hormones, etc that are added to all but certified organic foods. Organic foods are also very expensive, so people who have little money end up spending it on foods that are really unhealthy and little more than hunger fillers.

I often wonder whether the key issue is this "calories in minus calories burned", when it's more about calories out than calories burned. Calories out are a combination of burning calories by moving about and what the body gets rid of. It's not a hugely appetising thought but excrement contains calories. I remember in one of the early chapters of Ezekiel he is told to use human waste as fuel to make his bread, although God later relents and lets him use animal dung.

I'm not a dietician by any means but it seems if your body processes the less nutritious food by simply pushing it through and out you'll gain less weight on the same diet than someoe else whose body processes it by preserving it as a fat store.

I don't dispute what you say about healthy food often being more expensive but it's hard not to wonder whether some people I see couldn't make better decisions. When I see someone so morbidly obese they could lose half their body weight and still be morbidly obese, in a mobility scooter, eating an enormous portion of popcorn and endless fried junk at craft shows it seems that's not the best way to eat - the food is full of junk and, being fair food, it's not exactly cheap either (you can get a huge pack of Oreos for the price of five deep-fried Oreos, for example). There's no way of knowing whether the weight gain caused the mobility issues or vice versa, but eating your own body weight in junk food isn't going to help.

Sadly the people like that, who tend to be very visible for all the wrong reasons, don't make it any easier for the people who are desperately trying to lose weight but struggling.

 

[Stravinsk]

The worst thing for me about being overweight are the assumptions and judgement people make about why I am overweight. People think it's as simple as calories in, calories burned. But as research shows, it is much more complex than that because each body metabolizes certain things differently. Just think of all the additives, preservatives, pesticides, chemicals, hormones, etc that are added to all but certified organic foods. Organic foods are also very expensive, so people who have little money end up spending it on foods that are really unhealthy and little more than hunger fillers.

For me, though, I hate the judgement. I eat mostly healthy, but I have a genetic (there are 3 places in the genome, all on the same chromosome) condition called lipedema, that makes it practically impossible to lose any weight that I gain, and there is a difference in colour and texture between lipedema fat and regular fat. I have had 3 surgical treatments so far, and will need two more. Recently I had to see a doctor who is not my regular, who asked repeatedly (about 8 times) through the 5-minute checkup whether I am diabetic, and he told me to lose weight. I am healthy, dammit! My blood levels are all normal. All of them. I hate having to justify myself to people who don't matter, and I hate the judgement.... even from doctors, who misdiagnose women with lipedema as simply obese with a simple cure: lose weight.

Never heard of lipedema till this post. So I read the wikipedia article on it, which says there is no cure. Maybe, maybe not. Wikipedia may be right but it's written by biased people so often it can be a reflection of that. I don't know either way.

That being said, don't put too much blame on the general public for judgement. In my experience, most of the excessively overweight persons I have met want to convince others of the lies they tell themselves. Ok, so some may have a disease like lipedema. But most don't. They will, however, still try to convince you it's genetic, it's because they're (X age), it's too hard in our industrial food society, basically anything that points the finger away from their own personal choices. So many people are aware that this person is full of their own lies/excuses and has a more difficult time taking these at face value.

 

[ValleyGal]

Sadly the people like that, who tend to be very visible for all the wrong reasons, don't make it any easier for the people who are desperately trying to lose weight but struggling.

"People like that" are often using food as a means of self-regulation. Sure, a lot of people could make better decisions, but you are correct that it is a myriad of different reasons for the choices people do make. Poverty, lack of education about healthy choices, inability to cook, convenience foods, eating out, eating filler foods, self-regulation, poor self-image, addictions, lack of exercise, and so many other factors. Doesn't make judgement okay. It only drives obese people to eat more unhealthy foods to make themselves forget the judgement. No matter what semantics you use, calories in/out, in/burned, whatever - it's far too simplistic and does not address the bigger picture.

They will, however, still try to convince you it's genetic, it's because they're (X age), it's too hard in our industrial food society, basically anything that points the finger away from their own personal choices.

Yes, many find excuses for failure to take responsibility. This is true. I believe many are hurting for one reason or another, and it is also true that the older we are, the more difficult it is to lose weight - especially for women over 50.

You are correct - there is no cure for lipedema, but there are treatment options. I was stage 3 and nearly immobile before my surgeries. I was told that had I waited any longer, and I would have been ineligible for surgery. As it is, the doctor figures I have a good 20+ years of mobility in me now, and I can also have surgery in the future again if I need it. Since my legs were treated, my arms started getting worse and since my arms got treated, my trunk has gotten out of control very quickly. Granted, some of this is from stress eating and I can lose it. Once it's treated though, I should be good to go for a long while. Diet seems to help - white powdery (sugar, baking soda, baking powder, flour/doughy foods and dairy make it worse, so I have those only on rare occasions.

I have no idea what the Wikipedia says on it, but I get my information from my surgeon and from the Lipedema Foundation, Fat Disorders Resource Society, as well as medical journal articles, mostly out of Germany because they've been treating it with surgery there for about 30 years. My point in bringing it up though, is because there are a number of fat disorders that tend to all get misdiagnosed as "obesity" without looking for disordered fat or underlying conditions, and the general public also makes these same judgements. That is what is unfortunate.

No one ever grows up saying "I'm gonna eat and lay around till I'm fat and then I'm gonna ride around walmart in a scooter in shorts and halter with my hips 'n honkers hanging out so people can take pictures and post 'em online so everyone can laugh and give me yet more excuses to eat more and gain more and so on and so forth." Nope. People want to be healthy and attractive, and also loved for who they are. Instead, many are rejected and their outlet is food because it's all they've got. There are so many intrapersonal dynamics with obesity that needs treatment just as much as there are factors external to themselves. Obese people, whether disordered disease or not, need to be treated in the bigger context, and judgement only serves to make it worse.

I am so grateful I can walk. I can't do a ten mile hike but I can walk about 8,500 steps a day, and I am so grateful. The alternative is immobility followed by related health concerns and eventual early death. So. They are ugly, but they work. I am grateful.

 

[tango]

"People like that" are often using food as a means of self-regulation. Sure, a lot of people could make better decisions, but you are correct that it is a myriad of different reasons for the choices people do make. Poverty, lack of education about healthy choices, inability to cook, convenience foods, eating out, eating filler foods, self-regulation, poor self-image, addictions, lack of exercise, and so many other factors. Doesn't make judgement okay. It only drives obese people to eat more unhealthy foods to make themselves forget the judgement. No matter what semantics you use, calories in/out, in/burned, whatever - it's far too simplistic and does not address the bigger picture.

There are certainly some valid reasons for people struggling but there comes a point when you have to simply say there's a degree of responsibility.

Yes, there are people who aren't familiar with the concept of healthy and unhealthy food, and people who struggle to fund healthy food, and so on. But fair food isn't cheap and eating your own body weight in ice cream when you're already so overweight you need a mobility scooter pushes things so far out of anything even remotely sensible it's hard not to wonder what people are thinking.

There's more to it than simply calories in minus calories out, but throwing an extra 5,000 calories in isn't going to help anything. If you can't burn the calories there's a lot to be said for taking on fewer of them in the first place. Yes, there are people who can cut their diets to 1,500 calories per day and still not lose any weight but when you've got 5,000 calories in your left hand and 4,000 in your right hand and you're in the process of eating the lot, the simple reality is that it's a bad decision and sooner or later you have to take responsibility for bad decisions.

I know a guy who used to be very active - he spent a lot of time hiking, hunting, playing sports etc. Then he had a hideous accident that damaged his spine and now he's paraplegic. He has gained weight since his accident, since most of the exercise he used to get isn't an option for him any more. Wheeling himself around can at least give his arms some exercise but it's nothing like the same. He watches what he eats very closely - because he can't exercise meaningfully he can't burn off the surplus calories if he has the extra large slice of cake.

Yes, many find excuses for failure to take responsibility. This is true. I believe many are hurting for one reason or another, and it is also true that the older we are, the more difficult it is to lose weight - especially for women over 50.

Sure, losing weight does get harder as you get older. But the crucial thing with any journey is to start.

It's certainly harder to start exercising as someone who is overweight but making it too easy for people to not exert any effort at all simply exacerbates the problem. When it gets to be an effort to perform daily tasks because you've gained weight, that's the situation where you need to be moving more. Making it easy to just sit in a scooter seems like a great way to promote further weight gain to the point that just walking becomes ever-more difficult.

No one ever grows up saying "I'm gonna eat and lay around till I'm fat and then I'm gonna ride around walmart in a scooter in shorts and halter with my hips 'n honkers hanging out so people can take pictures and post 'em online so everyone can laugh and give me yet more excuses to eat more and gain more and so on and so forth." Nope. People want to be healthy and attractive, and also loved for who they are. Instead, many are rejected and their outlet is food because it's all they've got. There are so many intrapersonal dynamics with obesity that needs treatment just as much as there are factors external to themselves. Obese people, whether disordered disease or not, need to be treated in the bigger context, and judgement only serves to make it worse.

I don't imagine very many people do grow up with their life's ambition being to waddle around. But when you're headed that way it makes sense to do something about it, no? When you find you can't fit into any of your outfits, again, perhaps it's a clue to reassess some things? It certainly was for me - when I found it harder to buy work clothes that fit that was an indication I needed to lose some weight. When my hiking pants were too tight and I couldn't find any larger hiking pants (that's another issue - when it's hard to find exercise gear it puts another barrier in the way of the overweight fixing their issues) it restricted my options to trails that weren't likely to be overgrown and plenty of checks for ticks and the like.

When you're so morbidly obese you could lose half your body weight and still be morbidly obese but you can still go into any store and buy a wide range of clothing, where does the wake-up call happen?

As an aside, it's interesting to see the curious contradiction between a parental fear that letting their kids go to the park to play without watching them like a hawk can be considered child neglect, against the question of how overweight a child has to be before their parents are considered to be neglecting them. If kids grow up thinking it's normal to eat your own body weight in junk food it's easy to see how they end up morbidly obese.

 

[Messy]

I once saw a program about a scientist who said it could be a virus. He tested it on monkeys.

 

[ValleyGal]

But when you're headed that way it makes sense to do something about it, no?

You are you, and you have the inner and external resources to do something about it. Again, there are a LOT o obese people who simply don't have those same resources, especially if it is due to conditions beyond their control. And yes, mental health concerns can be beyond someone's control - addictions, medications, conditions, culture, and all the socioeconomic and agricultural contributions, and their mental/emotional responses. Clearly you have never had to fight obesity. Overweight, maybe, but not obesity. These people already struggle, already judge themselves, they are hurting inside, lonely, and often do not have the resources that you do. Otherwise it would be easy enough to lose the weight and they would do it, like you did. They need help, not judgement.

 

[tango]

You are you, and you have the inner and external resources to do something about it. Again, there are a LOT o obese people who simply don't have those same resources, especially if it is due to conditions beyond their control. And yes, mental health concerns can be beyond someone's control - addictions, medications, conditions, culture, and all the socioeconomic and agricultural contributions, and their mental/emotional responses. Clearly you have never had to fight obesity. Overweight, maybe, but not obesity. These people already struggle, already judge themselves, they are hurting inside, lonely, and often do not have the resources that you do. Otherwise it would be easy enough to lose the weight and they would do it, like you did. They need help, not judgement.

Good to see you know my history so well. You know what they say about making assumptions....

Somewhere there has to be a balance between acknowledging circumstance and accepting responsibility.

When my weight was at its highest my BMI was 34.8 so I was only slightly shy of being considered morbidly obese. The simple reality is that Every. Single. Thing. that went into my mouth was something I freely chose to eat. Nobody held me down and force fed me cakes. I can blame the calorific content of processed food all I want. I can blame the distance to the gym or the weather or whatever else but the simple reality is that I chose to eat what I ate, and I chose to not move about even as my weight increased. And then, as my weight increased, I became less inclined to move about and more inclined to take a second (or third, or fourth) portion of cake, and so the situation worsened. Pray tell, who should get the blame for that if not me?

Later on I made the choice to start moving. I started walking regularly and then started walking further. Running wasn't yet an option - it hurt my legs and I could only go for 30 seconds or so before my pulse was out of control and I was wheezing like an asthmatic hippo. But as my weight came back down and my fitness improved I was able to start running, even if only in short sections and mostly limited to the easy sections of my route (and, crucially, where there weren't very many houses because I didn't want too many people seeing my rather sorry efforts).

The consequences of changing my own choices - I'm in my 50s and in better shape than I've ever been in my life. The last time I could fit into the size jeans I currently wear was more than 20 years ago. If you're interested mosey over to Lammchen's Workout Thread, where I sometimes post about my running. I'm not an elite athlete by any means and never will be, but changing my choices (moving more, eating less, being at least marginally more conscious of what I eat) has made a huge difference.

The total cost of my training - more or less nothing. I have a couple of $15 water bottles and I go through a pair of $50 shoes every six months or so (after 400 miles or so of running they don't offer much support, so I replace them). When I'm only using them for walking they last a year or more. If that is too much you can get cheaper water bottles and you can probably get cheaper shoes. Aside from that, after a hard workout I'll have some milk with protein powder added but if the cost of that is problematic there are cheaper sources of protein, and working out hard isn't necessary to avoid keeping surplus weight at bay.

Certainly I've never weighed so much I couldn't walk. But just as you (rightly) commented that nobody figures when they are young their hopes for life include weighing 500lb so they can wobble around Wally World as people mock them, nobody goes to bed with a 150lb body and wakes up mysteriously weighing 450lb. It takes time to gain that sort of weight, time that involves lots of choices of what to eat and how much to eat. If you already weigh in at 300lb and decide to keep eating cake you can't really be surprised when you find you weigh 310, then 320, 330, and so on.

We can blame all sorts of external factors but we can't make personal responsibility go away.

 

[ValleyGal]

Pray tell, who should get the blame for that if not me?

Again, for many people, it is not so easy as calories in and calories out, or simply making the decision to walk or run. I know people who eat virtually nothing - even 500 lb active men - who can't lose an ounce. I also know women who spent 8 hours a day exercising to lose lipedema fat from their legs, only to be told it will never go away no matter how hard they exercise. Every body is different. Count your blessings that you had the inner resources to do something about yours. Not many are so fortunate, and it is not about the decisions they make.

We can blame all sorts of external factors but we can't make personal responsibility go away.

Personal responsibility plays a factor for many people, yes. And there are also many who have little to no control, and most of these are women - though men can also have fat disorders, metabolic disorders or poor mental health that contributes to weight gain. Again, no one is suggesting we should not take personal responbility, but you also need to acknowledge that there are legitimate reasons for people to be overweight, and you can't judge which are which, so don't judge at all. People who are overweight already feel crappy enough about it that they don't need people judging them for having a bag of chips in their cart. It might not even be for them!

 

[Stravinsk]

Again, for many people, it is not so easy as calories in and calories out, or simply making the decision to walk or run. I know people who eat virtually nothing - even 500 lb active men - who can't lose an ounce. I also know women who spent 8 hours a day exercising to lose lipedema fat from their legs, only to be told it will never go away no matter how hard they exercise. Every body is different. Count your blessings that you had the inner resources to do something about yours. Not many are so fortunate, and it is not about the decisions they make.

I have to call bs here. Not every body is different in the sense of the basics. The human body is designed to (disease or not) do a lot to keep the energy flowing so as to sustain life. I very much doubt you know 500 lb "active men" who "eat virtually nothing" and can't lose. If they don't eat, or they eat so low calorie as to not sustain either basic life functions (not to mention extra activity), their bodies, after depleting normal energy sources (carbohydrate), will turn to fat first, then muscle and break it down for energy. There is simply no such thing as a fat person dying of starvation. Nutrient deficiencies and disease yes, but not starvation.

 

[ValleyGal]

I get it if you don't get it. But my first husband and I had friends - they were a couple, each weighed about 500 lbs. Actually I think he was closer to 600. Anyway, He wheezed a little, but he could keep up with my husband - a 160-lb man less than half our friends' age - when they prepared their loads (truck drivers). He walked and moved around as well as anyone, hopped in and out of his semi faster than we did, and he seriously hardly ate a thing. His wife was similar. She could clean her house in less than an hour, tend her garden, and move around quickly in her sewing room, and she would have tea and toast for lunch. I have no idea what their story was about obesity. I never asked. But I do know what I witnessed. Years before that, I went to grade school with a very overweight guy. He stayed overweight all his life, but as an adult, he ate clean and green (organic and plant based). He died a few years ago, but again, I never asked about his weight. And a family I grew up with had a son who was rather large. He was very active in school sports and had a very active job after he graduated. And he is by no means, an overeater. Never has been, but has always been large.

It all comes back to what is the worst thing about being overweight. The bottom line (for me) is that no one knows anyone else's story, so painting all obese or overweight people with the same brush is unfair to all obese and overweight people because it ignores the nuances of journey, context, health, and other contributing factors.

 

[tango]

Again, for many people, it is not so easy as calories in and calories out, or simply making the decision to walk or run. I know people who eat virtually nothing - even 500 lb active men - who can't lose an ounce. I also know women who spent 8 hours a day exercising to lose lipedema fat from their legs, only to be told it will never go away no matter how hard they exercise. Every body is different. Count your blessings that you had the inner resources to do something about yours. Not many are so fortunate, and it is not about the decisions they make.

It's remarkable what happens when you take responsibility for making decisions. Not least because you accept that you can make different decisions and get a different outcome. In my case, eating more sensibly and moving around more. It's remarkable.

When everything is someone else's fault (or, at the very least, Not My Fault) you end up powerless. You might as well stuff your face with nutritional garbage because, hey, you're fat anyway so what difference does it make? Except then you end up even fatter, but obviously that's Not Your Fault either, right?

My experience is that the overwhelming majority of the extremely overweight people I've encountered have been in situations where they either had shopping cart full of trash, or were in the process of eating ridiculous amounts of trash. That's not to say I've encountered every single extremely fat person out there but what I've seen is overwhelmingly consistent.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say about my "inner resources" to do something about my situation, unless you're dressing up the term "personal responsibility" as if it were a novel thing. I took responsibility for previous bad decisions, made the decision to change, and then did something different. It worked.

A couple my parents knew many years ago struggled with weight, the wife in particular. One time I was with them and she was so fat a couple of random people made snide remarks as she waddled past. She could barely walk a quarter mile without getting out of breath but something changed her mindset (I think it was pending surgery for something weight-related, but forget precise details) and she decided she was sick of being fat. When she started walking she started very gently because she had to - she physically couldn't do more than very short distances. She'd struggle to walk from one end of even a modest shopping mall to the other without stopping to rest. She built up, and up, and up, and ended up spending entire days walking coastal paths with her husband, having shed some monstrous amount of weight along the way. And it all started with her making the decision to do something different.

If you do what you've always done you'll get what you've always got. It's a brutal reality even for the people who want to claim that nothing is their fault.

Personal responsibility plays a factor for many people, yes. And there are also many who have little to no control, and most of these are women - though men can also have fat disorders, metabolic disorders or poor mental health that contributes to weight gain.

I'm sure there are some people who genuinely struggle to lose much weight but I'm finding it really hard to believe that they are more than a relatively small proportion of the overweight people. Seriously, look at the people who waddle around Wally World and look at what they have in their cart. Where judgment exists in cases like this it's about a person's actions rather than their situation.

As for "little to no control", does somebody hold a gun to their heads and force them to eat n extra three portions of cake? Are they chained up and prevented from going for a walk? If you have the disorders you mention it's probably a really bad idea to eat extra large helpings of cake and ice cream. As I mentioned before the guy I know who is a paraplegic watches what he eats carefully because his exercise options are very limited. He still enjoys cake, just in smaller portions than he once did. He has less control than I do, and adjusts his eating accordingly. He can't exercise the way he once did but he still gets to decide what he eats and how much of it he eats.

I don't know whether someone's mobility issues caused their weight gain or vice versa. I do know that eating thousands of calories worth of junk isn't going to help. You can make whatever excuses you want but that's the simple reality.

It's also worth considering what people who "hardly eat anything" actually eat. A guy I knew some years ago was badly overweight and his wife was hugely overweight, to the point she avoided social situations because she assumed she'd be rejected because she was fat. This guy once commented to me that "she hardly eats anything". I saw what she ate and there's no way it counted as "hardly anything". When I went to a convenience store to pick up some snacks at the end of a day out we were both getting something for ourselves and our wives (who hadn't joined us for the day, so we were choosing). I picked up a candy bar and a couple of bags of chips to share with my wife. He practically filled a shopping bag with candy, chips, salty snacks etc. But, you know, they hardly eat anything.

Again, no one is suggesting we should not take personal responbility, but you also need to acknowledge that there are legitimate reasons for people to be overweight, and you can't judge which are which, so don't judge at all. People who are overweight already feel crappy enough about it that they don't need people judging them for having a bag of chips in their cart. It might not even be for them!

You seem very quick to make excuses only to turn around and say we should take responsibility. Are you now agreeing that the 500lb person who wobbles around on a mobility scooter eating their own body weight in ice cream and popcorn is actually doing something stupid?

We're not talking about judging someone for having a bag of chips in their cart. I'm talking about people who are morbidly obese, so fat that they apparently can't even walk, with a cart loaded with nutritional junk. Nice try at turning my points into a strawman though.

On the topic of judging, there's a big difference between judging someone's actions and judging someone's situation. I don't know what caused their situation but when anyone can see that their actions are only going to make a bad situation worse that's a different thing entirely.

 

[Stravinsk]

I get it if you don't get it. But my first husband and I had friends - they were a couple, each weighed about 500 lbs. Actually I think he was closer to 600. Anyway, He wheezed a little, but he could keep up with my husband - a 160-lb man less than half our friends' age - when they prepared their loads (truck drivers). He walked and moved around as well as anyone, hopped in and out of his semi faster than we did, and he seriously hardly ate a thing. His wife was similar. She could clean her house in less than an hour, tend her garden, and move around quickly in her sewing room, and she would have tea and toast for lunch. I have no idea what their story was about obesity. I never asked. But I do know what I witnessed. Years before that, I went to grade school with a very overweight guy. He stayed overweight all his life, but as an adult, he ate clean and green (organic and plant based). He died a few years ago, but again, I never asked about his weight. And a family I grew up with had a son who was rather large. He was very active in school sports and had a very active job after he graduated. And he is by no means, an overeater. Never has been, but has always been large.

It all comes back to what is the worst thing about being overweight. The bottom line (for me) is that no one knows anyone else's story, so painting all obese or overweight people with the same brush is unfair to all obese and overweight people because it ignores the nuances of journey, context, health, and other contributing factors.

No, I get it. The people you are mentioning here you aren't with 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Seeing 1 or 2 meals over the course of several hours in a day doesn't paint an accurate picture of daily or even weekly intake vs activity. For instance, on some days you could watch me for the better part of 8 hours and see me consume nothing but a few cups of coffee during those waking hours. That doesn't tell you the reason for that. You'd make some assessment/assumption but you'd be wrong. On nights I consume more alcohol than I should this happens. My body converts it to sugar and I'm not hungry for many hours the next day. Drawing correct conclusions using limited observations (and unless you are nursing them, that is what it is nearly 100% of the time) is more than a little assumptive. Sort of like watching watching an overweight person eat a salad and wondering why they are still fat or watching a thin person eat ice-cream and assuming their metabolism just takes care of the extra calories magically.

 

[Stravinsk]

My experience is that the overwhelming majority of the extremely overweight people I've encountered have been in situations where they either had shopping cart full of trash, or were in the process of eating ridiculous amounts of trash. That's not to say I've encountered every single extremely fat person out there but what I've seen is overwhelmingly consistent.

That's been my experience as well.

In addition, I was once married, and my wife was overweight. If one watched her for the majority of her waking hours, one would wonder why. She often didn't eat breakfast or lunch. Come dinner time though, it was feast time just before bed. That wouldn't be vegetables or legumes, or whole grains or fruit or seeds. No, it was high fat meat products, fried food, lots of cheese, rich deserts and even more dairy mixed with sugar right before bed. She wasn't obese, but she was fat and one meal a day like this was pretty much the norm.

It's also worth considering what people who "hardly eat anything" actually eat. A guy I knew some years ago was badly overweight and his wife was hugely overweight, to the point she avoided social situations because she assumed she'd be rejected because she was fat. This guy once commented to me that "she hardly eats anything". I saw what she ate and there's no way it counted as "hardly anything". When I went to a convenience store to pick up some snacks at the end of a day out we were both getting something for ourselves and our wives (who hadn't joined us for the day, so we were choosing). I picked up a candy bar and a couple of bags of chips to share with my wife. He practically filled a shopping bag with candy, chips, salty snacks etc. But, you know, they hardly eat anything.

Yep, this is the reason people often don't take what overweight people say at face value. If a "small snack" is a shopping bag full of low nutrient, hi calorie junk food, one must wonder what a "regular meal" is.

 

[ValleyGal]

Personal responsibility has nothing to do with other factors that are beyond control. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that several posts ago. However, there seems to be no talking to people who continue to use derogatory language and judgements. Sometimes I think people like to argue just for the sake of being argumentative and are not the least bit interested in really listening to others or understanding other perspectives than their own. I really gotta find forums where people have conversations to learn and exchange ideas and information rather than just dig in their heels and assert their own "us/them, right/wrong" mindset.

 

[Stravinsk]

Sometimes I think people like to argue just for the sake of being argumentative and are not the least bit interested in really listening to others or understanding other perspectives than their own.

The two people who are "arguing" with you (myself and Tango) have both been overweight at some point. I don't want to speak for him, but I'm guessing neither he nor I would like to go back there. It's not as if we don't know the perspective of the "other side". We know at least from our own experience what it was like, how we got out of it, and how we stayed out of it.

A big part of that is being honest with oneself.

I really gotta find forums where people have conversations to learn and exchange ideas and information rather than just dig in their heels and assert their own "us/them, right/wrong" mindset.

You mean what you really want is a forum of people who think like you on particular subjects. That would be your sharing and their "learning". God forbid they have a mind of their own and don't agree to the ideas you are trying to exchange.