should minors be tried as adults

Tried as adults


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dogs4thewin

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and if so when?
 

Krissy Cakes

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Depends on the crime. If the child murders someone then I 100% agree they should be tried as adults.
 

dogs4thewin

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Depends on the crime. If the child murders someone then I 100% agree they should be tried as adults.
What happens if the child is REALLY young say under ten OR if they kill someone that does NOT amount to murder? Remember there are like four or five crimes ( at least) in most states that involve the taking of a life.
 

Krissy Cakes

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What happens if the child is REALLY young say under ten OR if they kill someone that does NOT amount to murder? Remember there are like four or five crimes ( at least) in most states that involve the taking of a life.

Then he/she should get life in jail/prison.
 

dogs4thewin

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Then he/she should get life in jail/prison.
Some states ( most noticely Texas) if someone is under 18 at the time of a crime life without parole is NOT an option. It is also illegal per a 2005 supreme court ruling to sentence ANYONE under 18 to death. I do not care if they murdered tn people in cold blood when they were 17 years 11 months and 29 days old he or she may NOT be put to death. Even adults who take lives by the way are not always sentenced to life. In many cases if you are convicted of involuntary manslaughter you face only a few years voluntary manslaughter can lead to a few more years, but is usually no where NEAR a life sentence.
 

psalms 91

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I think it is overdone where they try juviniles as adults. They really shouldnt be tried in this manner
 

Pelikan

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Then he/she should get life in jail/prison.

That's justice to you?

No wonder recidivism is so high in the U.S. if rehabilitation is sidelined by punishment... even for children!
 

Krissy Cakes

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That's justice to you?

No wonder recidivism is so high in the U.S. if rehabilitation is sidelined by punishment... even for children!

Okay when if a "child" murders your kid or your wife. What do you think now?
 

psalms 91

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same answer they should be tried as a child not an adult and the focus should be on rehabilitation rather than just punishment
 

tango

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and if so when?

I think it has to depend on circumstances.

On one hand if you've got a 16-year-old accused of rape it seems absurd to try them as a child. At the same time if you're dealing with a 12-year-old committing relatively low-level offences because they are starting to get involved in the gang scene there's a case to be made to treat them in a way that gets them out of the gang scene it makes more sense than to try them as an adult, throw them in an adult jail, and cement the chances of them spending a life on the run from the law.
 

tango

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same answer they should be tried as a child not an adult and the focus should be on rehabilitation rather than just punishment

The justice system needs to focus on three things, in varying proportions depending on the nature of the offender and the crime.

Society needs to be protected from dangerous criminals, which may involve them being locked up. If a rapist is in prison they aren't out raping people.

The criminal needs to face a punishment that is in proportion to the offense (and any previous track record of offending), which may include anything from a financial penalty to unpaid community service to incarceration.

Finally the criminal needs to be rehabilitated so they can rejoin society and see the error of their ways. Obviously rehabilitation will vary hugely depending on the criminal and the punishment - someone who has been required to perform unpaid community service may not need specific rehabilitation but someone who has spent the last 30 years behind bars will need help to adjust to life outside prison.

All three are important - society must be protected or we are at the mercy of those who would prey upon us. The criminals must be punished, so their actions have consequences. And once they have served their punishment they must be rehabilitated so they have a sporting chance of making an honest living, otherwise they will just commit more crimes and nobody is any further forward.
 

psalms 91

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Problem is there is no level playing field for those released. They cant get public housing and there is a predjudice against hiring them. They face major obstacles. Did you know that convicted of certain crimes the elederly are denied nursing home care as noone will accept them. I understand the need for punishment but I also think that if you want someone not to reoffend then they must be given a chance
 

tango

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What happens if the child is REALLY young say under ten OR if they kill someone that does NOT amount to murder? Remember there are like four or five crimes ( at least) in most states that involve the taking of a life.

I think if a child is capable of planning and proceeding with a murder plot they need to face serious consequences for their actions. It's simply not acceptable to shrug and figure that a life is worth little to nothing because the person who took it was a child.

If they kill someone in a way that isn't murder it would have to depend on the circumstances. Accidents happen to the best of us, so if a couple of kids are playing in the river and one of them drowns there comes a point when it has to be accepted that it was an accident (albeit a tragic accident) but if you've got an 8-year-old who stole a car and ran someone over with it they need to be punished.

One other thing to consider is that if children under a certain age are considered immune from prosecution, how do you handle the gangs who train children to commit the crimes specifically because they can't be prosecuted? In parts of Europe you get reports of gangs of Eastern Europeans who train children to pick pockets, so if the adults are caught they can claim they found a wallet and planned to hand it in and if the children are caught they are underage and can't be prosecuted.
 

tango

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Problem is there is no level playing field for those released. They cant get public housing and there is a predjudice against hiring them. They face major obstacles. Did you know that convicted of certain crimes the elederly are denied nursing home care as noone will accept them. I understand the need for punishment but I also think that if you want someone not to reoffend then they must be given a chance

Sure, which is why rehabilitation is so important. In the UK there is a specific legal act (the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, I forget the year) that essentially says that after a certain period offenses are considered "spent" and no longer need to be declared. There are a few exceptions - if you're applying for certification to work with children then I think you have to declare your entire criminal history, and I believe police checks for immigration purposes are comparably thorough.

It's clearly absurd that someone who does something silly as a teenager is tarred with it for the rest of their lives, but it's important to strike a balance between giving a reformed criminal a fair chance and protecting society from the guy who just did his time and is now ready to commit more crimes.
 

Pelikan

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Okay when if a "child" murders your kid or your wife. What do you think now?

I'm not saying it's 'just fine'... But they're a child.

There have been people raped and left for dead that have forgiven the person on death row. As Christians we're expected to forgive. If we can't forgive someone with limited mental capacity to discern right from wrong to the extent than an adult can, I don't know when we can.
 

MotorCityChristian

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I'm not saying it's 'just fine'... But they're a child.

There have been people raped and left for dead that have forgiven the person on death row. As Christians we're expected to forgive. If we can't forgive someone with limited mental capacity to discern right from wrong to the extent than an adult can, I don't know when we can.

Not all of these mass murders are done by people mentally ill though. When I say punish the most heinous children as adults, I mean several things:

1. It must be a pre-meditated crime.

2. The child must be proven competent to stand trial.

3. It must involve loss of life, almost always multiple lives.
 

LovebirdsFlying

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A lot of fourteen-to-seventeen-year-olds would be very quick to remind you they're not children anymore if they want to be allowed to do something like stay up late or choose their own clothes or watch certain TV shows. So, since they want to be grownups, fine. Let them face grownup consequences if they commit a crime.
 

tango

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I'm not saying it's 'just fine'... But they're a child.

There have been people raped and left for dead that have forgiven the person on death row. As Christians we're expected to forgive. If we can't forgive someone with limited mental capacity to discern right from wrong to the extent than an adult can, I don't know when we can.

Christian forgiveness and secular punishment aren't related.

If someone rapes and murders my wife (it doesn't matter whether they are 14 or 44), I have the right (and, as a Christian, the duty) to forgive. But that doesn't mean society loses the right to protection in case they decide to figure that I was daft enough to let them off so they can go and do it again.
 

tango

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Not all of these mass murders are done by people mentally ill though. When I say punish the most heinous children as adults, I mean several things:

1. It must be a pre-meditated crime.

2. The child must be proven competent to stand trial.

3. It must involve loss of life, almost always multiple lives.

I think that "adult" crimes need to be tried as adults regardless of the age of the child.

If a child commits sexual offences they need to be tried as adults because of the nature of the crime. The punishment they face may (and probably should) be age-appropriate but to figure that a 9-year-old who sexually assaults his 5-year-old sister should just get let off "because he's just a child" is odd to say the least.

The chances are in a situation like that the 9-year-old is himself a victim of something, but one way or another the cycle needs to be broken.
 
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