Mental Health services

NewCreation435

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I am wondering what your opinion is of the mental health services for either adults or children or both in the area where you live? I have worked in mental health over the last 14 years in the US and feel like there are still areas where it can be improved on. Seems like every time there is a crisis or a shooting people talk about it, but then nothing is done.
It seems like more needs to be done to identify who needs the services and intervene early so things like school shootings don't happen. We had one shooting in our state recently at a school where a student died.
 

tango

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My concern with mental health is much like my concern about physical health. If you get into the clutches of a "pill mill" doctor there's no way of knowing where you'll end up, especially if you get stuck with mind-altering medication.

"Intervene early" is great in theory but the last thing people need is a trigger-happy prescriber putting them on antidepressants as a precaution.
 

Lämmchen

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In my experience, I never dealt with having to go to a mental health expert for myself, but I did take my daughter and sat in on sessions for family as well as individual to help her out.

Here's my opinion based on that experience:

The doctors all thought their method was the only thing that would work and their egos were through the roof.

The therapist, on the other hand, was the one that actually helped my daughter! She was a Christian therapist and was more open to hearing my daughter instead of talking at my daughter.

As for school shootings, I wouldn't blame it on the health experts totally because I've read enough articles where family members would say that the person had gone off their meds or refused to be treated.
 

tango

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As for school shootings, I wouldn't blame it on the health experts totally because I've read enough articles where family members would say that the person had gone off their meds or refused to be treated.

... and when many psychotropic drugs come with black-box warnings of side effects that include suicidal and homicidal ideations it isn't encouraging when doctors reach for the prescription pad as a first resort.
 

Lämmchen

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... and when many psychotropic drugs come with black-box warnings of side effects that include suicidal and homicidal ideations it isn't encouraging when doctors reach for the prescription pad as a first resort.

Funny you mention that! This actually happened to my daughter where they prescribed a medicine because they said she had depression (she didn't) and it made her talk about wanting to kill herself when we got her out of the hospital. I called the doctor and informed her that we would no longer be giving her that pill. The doctor scoffed at first but her colleague agreed with me so then the doctor caved and agreed my daughter could go off the medicine.
 

tango

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Funny you mention that! This actually happened to my daughter where they prescribed a medicine because they said she had depression (she didn't) and it made her talk about wanting to kill herself when we got her out of the hospital. I called the doctor and informed her that we would no longer be giving her that pill. The doctor scoffed at first but her colleague agreed with me so then the doctor caved and agreed my daughter could go off the medicine.

Some of these drugs can have really nasty effects. I've read about cases where people who didn't have depression were given antidepressants, which caused them to have what looked like manic episodes which in turn prompted diagnoses of bipolar disorder and stronger medications.

One thing I find a huge cause for concern is your last few words - the doctor "agreed" that you could decide for yourselves. I consider the "pill mill" doctors to be nothing short of a disgrace to the profession.
 

Lämmchen

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Some of these drugs can have really nasty effects. I've read about cases where people who didn't have depression were given antidepressants, which caused them to have what looked like manic episodes which in turn prompted diagnoses of bipolar disorder and stronger medications.

One thing I find a huge cause for concern is your last few words - the doctor "agreed" that you could decide for yourselves. I consider the "pill mill" doctors to be nothing short of a disgrace to the profession.

Yes, they definitely push pills! I heard that they get a kickback from it but I have never officially asked any doctor to confirm.

When I was about to be released from the hospital after having surgery for cancer 4 years ago, I was in no pain and only taking Tylenol. One of the Resident doctors tried to get me to take a prescription for Oxycontin! I asked her, "Why??? Is the pain going to get worse?" She said, "No, we have to offer it to you though in case you need pain relief." I was unyielding about it and they made a note in my files that I rejected the script. The janitors were laughing. I guess most people take the prescription.
 

tango

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Yes, they definitely push pills! I heard that they get a kickback from it but I have never officially asked any doctor to confirm.

When I was about to be released from the hospital after having surgery for cancer 4 years ago, I was in no pain and only taking Tylenol. One of the Resident doctors tried to get me to take a prescription for Oxycontin! I asked her, "Why??? Is the pain going to get worse?" She said, "No, we have to offer it to you though in case you need pain relief." I was unyielding about it and they made a note in my files that I rejected the script. The janitors were laughing. I guess most people take the prescription.

I have to wonder how many people would take the stronger pain meds, or take the prescription and then sell it on the street.

Many years ago a family member was taken to the emergency room with excruciating pains. In the triage area they gave him morphine to dull the pain but as soon as he was moved to a ward they switched to ibuprofen, at a similar dose to what anyone can buy over the counter at any pharmacy.
 

NewCreation435

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My concern with mental health is much like my concern about physical health. If you get into the clutches of a "pill mill" doctor there's no way of knowing where you'll end up, especially if you get stuck with mind-altering medication.

"Intervene early" is great in theory but the last thing people need is a trigger-happy prescriber putting them on antidepressants as a precaution.
I was thinking more about counseling than meds.
In the US there is a database that doctors can look at to see what prescriptions clients are getting in an effort to crack down on overdoses to things like Xanax and other medications that are often abused. The trigger happy prescriber can get their license to practice taken away and that does happen sometimes.
 

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I was thinking more about counseling than meds.
In the US there is a database that doctors can look at to see what prescriptions clients are getting in an effort to crack down on overdoses to things like Xanax and other medications that are often abused. The trigger happy prescriber can get their license to practice taken away and that does happen sometimes.

There are all different styles of counseling in the US and from my experience, the higher the degree the person has, the bigger the ego and insisting that THEIR way is the only way...except that's not always true. That's my experience from having to deal with psychiatrists, psychologists and therapists while my daughter was ill. It was the Christian therapist who helped my daughter work things out the best and allowed her to recover...without medicine.

The Christian therapist actually listened. She asked questions and made my daughter feel as if she COULD be helped instead of seeing her as a 6 year cash cow, which is how the psychiatrist who was a specialist made her feel.
 

tango

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What's really fun is when you get into the concept of anosognosia. It's a common symptom of certain mental illnesses and causes the individual to not believe they have a problem at all. Of course it's hard to persuade someone to take a medication if they don't believe they are ill.

The fun aspect of it is that if a psychiatrist with an oversized ego gets a diagnosis wrong the person who insists they don't have the condition the psychiatrist believes they have, if they are really lucky the psychiatrist assumes they are also suffering from anosognosia and figures that on that basis they are also suffering from psychosis or schizophrenia or similar, and puts them on really heavy duty medications.
 

NewCreation435

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There are all different styles of counseling in the US and from my experience, the higher the degree the person has, the bigger the ego and insisting that THEIR way is the only way...except that's not always true. That's my experience from having to deal with psychiatrists, psychologists and therapists while my daughter was ill. It was the Christian therapist who helped my daughter work things out the best and allowed her to recover...without medicine.

The Christian therapist actually listened. She asked questions and made my daughter feel as if she COULD be helped instead of seeing her as a 6 year cash cow, which is how the psychiatrist who was a specialist made her feel.
Yes, there is. Which makes it all the more important to get to know the person and tailor things to that person's needs. I say that all the time.
 

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Yes, there is. Which makes it all the more important to get to know the person and tailor things to that person's needs. I say that all the time.

I thought that was the point of therapy anyway...to get to know the person then treat him/her accordingly?
 

tango

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I thought that was the point of therapy anyway...to get to know the person then treat him/her accordingly?

I increasingly think the point of therapy is to create a dependence on the therapist such that the client keeps coming back more or less forever.
 

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In my area, it is hard to get into seeing a new therapist, no matter the degree, for a few months. I have seen several different ones over the years with different degrees. Most have been good. Where I live now, it took me 3 tries to find one that is helping me. Most of the time I see a therapist is on an "as need" basis. Do I take a med? Yes I do. A while back I went off of them for a while, but I was one who relapsed during the pandemic. Not all meds work for everyone.
 

Lämmchen

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In my area, it is hard to get into seeing a new therapist, no matter the degree, for a few months. I have seen several different ones over the years with different degrees. Most have been good. Where I live now, it took me 3 tries to find one that is helping me. Most of the time I see a therapist is on an "as need" basis. Do I take a med? Yes I do. A while back I went off of them for a while, but I was one who relapsed during the pandemic. Not all meds work for everyone.

A lot of services now have a long waiting list and not just therapy. I can't even get a interior house painter out here until January!

I think the really good doctors have the longest waiting lists.
 

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I increasingly think the point of therapy is to create a dependence on the therapist such that the client keeps coming back more or less forever.

It's not the point of therapy but it may be the leaning of some therapists. I saw one for reasons I will not disclose some years back. The therapist was decent, we tried several methods to overcome some of my reasons for being there. In the end, none of them stuck, so certain drugs were suggested, which I declined. At a certain point there was an ultimatum - use the drugs and continue therapy or therapy would no longer be an option. I don't fault the particular therapist per se (drugs were at no time pushed prior to using other methods), but I knew that their funding is ultimately tied, at least in part, to the pharma industry.
 

tango

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It's not the point of therapy but it may be the leaning of some therapists. I saw one for reasons I will not disclose some years back. The therapist was decent, we tried several methods to overcome some of my reasons for being there. In the end, none of them stuck, so certain drugs were suggested, which I declined. At a certain point there was an ultimatum - use the drugs and continue therapy or therapy would no longer be an option. I don't fault the particular therapist per se (drugs were at no time pushed prior to using other methods), but I knew that their funding is ultimately tied, at least in part, to the pharma industry.

True, I guess the practise of some therapists gets blurred with the point of therapy until they seem like one and the same.

I struggle to have much faith in the healthcare system, with the system for mental health care holding a place of particular scorn. It seems to be about rushing to diagnose, prescribing pills for want of any better ideas, and causing more problems than it solves.
 
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