I am the way and the truth and the life

Faithhopeandcharity

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Thanks for confirming my point: No mention of your church. Nope. Isn't there.

And your attempt in this thread to get the focus OFF Christ and instead on your church is very telling (and disgusting).




The Bible uses the word "CHURCH" in two very different ways:


CHURCH. (invisible)

"The one, holy, catholic community of saints" as most Christians proclaim each Sunday. This is PEOPLE, the PEOPLE of God. ALL those to whom God has given the divine gifts of faith, spiritual life, justification (narrow) and the Holy Spirit. It is the entire corpus of such (both on earth and now in heaven). It is "invisible" in the sense that it is not a human/geopolical/legal/economic entity but is "visible" in the sense that faith among the faithful is observable. It is ONE (because we are one body, one family, brothers and sisters in Christ), united in our faith in CHRIST as THE (one, only, exclusive) Savior. It is HOLY because all in it are forgiven via that faith in that Savior. It is CATHOLIC because it embraces ALL believers everywhere and in every time, it is a communion because we are united into one spiritual entity.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Ephesians 4:4
1 Peter 2:9
Romans 12:4
Ephesians 1:1
Luke 17:21



CONGREGATION/PARISH

Example: Good Shepherd Catholic Church of Beverly Hills, CA. Concordia Lutheran Church of Jamestown, ND.

A congregation is a gathering of Christian people in a given place and time. They gather together by their Lord's direction to worship, study, serve/minister, grow, support, love and hold each other accountable. They MAY put institutional aspects into place (name, constitution/by laws, articles of corporation, budgets, officers, property, etc.) so that that association has institutional aspects or simply may be Christians who gather in some living room. While the word "church" is often used for this too, it is NOT to be confused with THE Church - the one, holy, catholic, communion of saints: these associations are at most a tiny and current subset of THE Church. There are tens of millions of congregations in the world, very few last more than a century so they tend to have a beginning and an end. It is NOT divinely mandated that all Christians associate into some congregation/parish, but many do and many believe this is a good thing but there are hundreds of millions of "non-congregational" Christians.

Galatians 1:2
1 Thessalonians 1:1
Revelation 1:4
1 Corinthians 1:2


The word "CHURCH" has two additional meanings in modern English. These meanings are not found in Scripture:


DENOMINATION

Examples: "The United Church of Christ" "The Orthodox Presbyterian Church" "The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod" "The Greek Orthodox Church" "The Catholic Church"

At times, a group of congregations MAY choose to associate together - forming an institution of them, an association of congregations.

This USUALLY is a formal institution - but it can at times simply refer to a common creed among congregations (as in "the Lutheran denomination" - there actually are over 300 Lutheran denomination institutions, but theoretically, most share a common creed, the Lutheran Confessions). These congregations associate together into denominations for similar reasons that Christians associate into congregations: for the purposes of mutual edification, ministry, support and accountability. Some of these are extremely "loose" (the "United Church of Christ" in the USA would be an example), the most radical forms are very strong they even may actually legally own and operate the member congregations (the Catholic Church or the Episcopal Church USA are examples of very radical, extreme denominations).

Congregations can be denominational (as most are) or non-denominational. Denominational ones are associated with other congregations - with a common formal statement of faith and often with some governance above and outside itself, whereas non-denominational ones are independent and autonomous. There is no divine mandate that a congregation be denominational (and millions aren't) but most are and most believe this is a benefit.

There are no Scriptures that mention denominations. Many hold that none clearly existed until the Roman Empire formed "The Roman Church" in the early 4th Century, created by itself for itself in the image of itself.

Some definitions:

From religioustolerance.com
Denomination: an established religious group, typically uniting a group of individual, local congregations into a single administrative body.


From thefreedictionary.com
Denomination: "A group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy."


From onlinedictionary.com
Denomination: "a group of religious congregations having its own organization and often a distinctive faith."


From Allwords.com
Denomination: "a group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith."


American Heritage Dictionary:
Denomination: "A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy."


Is the RCC a denomination? It is unless one insists that it has no Catechism or beliefs, that is has no bishops or archbishops or cardinals or pope, that each priest is entirely autonomous, that each parish is absolutely independent and has nothing to do with ANY other parish.


BUILDING

The word is often used for a building used for religious purposes by Christians.



- Josiah



.
Body of Christ (physical)
Catholic universal whole world
Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16 Lk 2:10-11
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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And that verse says nothing...absolutely nothing...about the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, that denomination wasn't even created yet. He was speaking to the Jews.
The one true Church was founded by Christ Matt 16:18-19
 

Lämmchen

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Lämmchen

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Faithhopeandcharity

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Was there even a Roman Catholic Church then? No is the correct answer.
Where is that in scripture?

jn 1:29 jn 3:16 universal whole world catholic Lk 2:10-11 all people universal catholic
 

Lämmchen

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Where is that in scripture?

jn 1:29 jn 3:16 universal whole world catholic Lk 2:10-11 all people universal catholic

catholic with a small c is not the same as Roman Catholic. I've been trying to get you to realize that as well as Josiah. The catholic with a small c means universal as you have said but that doesn't mean pertaining to Rome or any denomination. Universal in that those who believe in God will have eternal life as in John 3:16 says. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
 

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catholic with a small c is not the same as Roman Catholic. I've been trying to get you to realize that as well as Josiah. The catholic with a small c means universal as you have said but that doesn't mean pertaining to Rome or any denomination. Universal in that those who believe in God will have eternal life as in John 3:16 says. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Jesus Christ is king!

Christ and his church conquered the Roman Empire, to the victor ho the spoils
 

Lämmchen

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Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Jesus Christ is king!

Christ and his church conquered the Roman Empire, to the victor ho the spoils

None of those verses say that Rome is the "catholic" church. It's the Roman Catholic and members may be included in the catholic church. You see, God has been building His church since the fall and Rome wasn't around then.
 

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None of those verses say that Rome is the "catholic" church. It's the Roman Catholic and members may be included in the catholic church. You see, God has been building His church since the fall and Rome wasn't around then.
Christ said “he” would build “his” church on Peter matt 16:18-19

it’s impossible to have unity with thousands of sects all teaching contradictory doctrine

the new covenant unity is by faith, all believing the same doctrine revealed by Christ and proposed for belief by the holy church

see below
 

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The new covenant unity:
Union with Christ the mediator and communion with God and the saints is based on “unity of faith”

“Thee faith” of the new covenant that all must believe without any error, false or strange doctrines foreign to “thee faith” of the new covenant!

“Thee faith” is found 31 times in the New Testament!

Obedience of faith: rom 16:26

Ephesians 4
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. ...

Romans 12:16
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 13:11
Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Philippians 2:2
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

1 Peter 3:8
Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

One church founded by Jesus Christ!

there is only one!
One God!
One Lord!
One savior!
One faith!
One new covenant!
One kingdom!
One household of faith!
One vineyard!
One church! (Not thousands of sects All teaching different doctrines all on the Bible alone, by the tradition of men)
Only Christ has authority to found the new covenant church! Matt 16:18-19
One shepherd one fold Jn 10:16
1 Tim 3:15 pillar and ground of truth
All men must be taught by the church!

Truth is revealed by God, fully by Christ, and must be proposed for our belief by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 one faith

Unity of faith!

Four Marks of the True Church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church!
 

Lämmchen

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Christ said “he” would build “his” church on Peter matt 16:18-19

it’s impossible to have unity with thousands of sects all teaching contradictory doctrine

the new covenant unity is by faith, all believing the same doctrine revealed by Christ and proposed for belief by the holy church

see below

Even the Romans have disunity if you ask around ;)
 
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