I am the way and the truth and the life

Lamb

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John 14:16 is filled with great information about Jesus as Savior. "I am the way and the truth and the life."

I am - I'm told that in the Greek language this is a very intense way of saying I myself and only I. It's very solid and also reflects the Hebrew for God of Yaweh.

the way - there is only one path and we take that path to follow Jesus. The disciples had asked Where are you going? Jesus said Follow Me and they did.

the truth - Jesus is the incarnate Word of God which is complete truth.

the Life - only through Jesus can we get to the Father. It is because of Jesus' death and resurrection that we by grace through faith can have eternal life.
 

Odë:hgöd

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Before coming into the world as a human being, God's son was a divine
being known as the Word (John 1:1a)

The Word is translated from the Greek word logos (log'-os) which basically
refers to something spoken as opposed to something written, viz; logos
basically refers to one's voice, i.e. their speech.

God's spoken words first appear in the Bible at Gen 1:3 where it says:

"Let there be light"

So we could legitimately paraphrase John 1:2 to read like this:

"All things were made by God's voice; and apart from His voice was not
any thing made that was made."

Thus it's seen that God preferred to command the cosmos into existence
instead of cogitating it into existence.

"By the voice of God the heavens were of old" (2Pet 3:5)

God's speech is more than sound and syllables; it is an extension of Himself,
i.e. His speech is charged with an energy so powerful that it can make inert
objects become alert with consciousness; e.g. John 1:4

"In God's voice was life;"

Seeing as how the words that come out of God's mouth are no less divine
than Himself, then I think it's valid to concur that His speech is a sentient being.

Please don't ask me how God's voice is a sentient being because it is just too
far beyond the capability of my below-average IQ to comprehend.

So then, when Jesus said "I am the life" I think it safe to paraphrase him as:
"I am that life", i.e. the life in God's voice; and seeing as how the life in God's
voice is an extension of Himself, then we certainly cannot refuse to recognize
The Word as more than just a divine being, instead, as the supreme being.
_
 
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Odë:hgöd

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Continuing from post No.2

1John 1:1-2 . .That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which
we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have
handled, of the Word of life-- for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and
bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and
was manifested unto us.

So the life that's in God's voice is a sentient being who always was, always is, and
always shall be. That (almost) makes perfect sense because if God always was,
always is, and always shall be; then of course His voice would be no different in
that respect.

The part that's difficult to grasp is how God's voice is a sentient being when the
human voice is just noise; and the moment it speaks words, they fade away to
nothing and can't be recalled with any more ease than recalling the ring of a bell or
the toot of a horn, i.e. spoken human words are DOA (dead on arrival) and that's
because the human voice isn't a sentient being.

Now, this sentient eternal being we've been examining isn't merely academic
doctrine; it's a supernatural presence.


1John 5:11-12 . .God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. He who
has the Son has the life; he who does not have God's son does not have the life.

The eternal life spoken of in that verse, and in 1John 1:1-2, is of course the self
same life that Jesus spoke of when he said: "I am the life". (John 11:25 and John
14:6)

If I could take some liberties here, I might paraphrase 1John 5:11-12 to read like
this:

"God has given us His voice, and this voice is in His son. He who has the Son has
this voice; he who does not have God's son does not have this voice."

God's voice, a.k.a. His son, a.k.a. eternal life, isn't aboard Jesus' followers by
means of a physical presence, rather, a spirit presence.

Rom 8:9-10 . .You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God
dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong
to him.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

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Continuing from post No.3

John 14:6 . . I am the way

The Greek word translated "way" is somewhat ambiguous. It can not only indicate a
route-- a path, a road, or a trail --but also progress.

For example, it takes roughly five months for people afoot to complete the entire
route of the Pacific Coast Trail from Campo California to Washington State's border
with Canada.

Resourceful hiker trash report their daily progress on social media platforms like
FaceBook and YouTube. Successful thru hikers-- those who complete the journey
--publish one final progress report when they reach their ultimate destination: the
border.

That's the sort of progress report that Jesus announced on the cross when he said
"It is finished." His crucifixion was trail's end, and he capped the journey by
crossing the border, viz: by rising from the dead.

People who have come to faith in Christ, do not need to retrace his steps because
they already did. God-- by means of some strange procedure that I do not
understand at all --reckons them crucified, died, buried, and resurrected along with,
and in, His son. (Rom 6:3-11, Gal 2:20, and Col 3:2-3)
_
 
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Faithhopeandcharity

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This truth also extends to His church
The one true church’s teaching authority from Christ is without error!

A divine institution: founded by Christ on Peter and the holy apostles and their successors unto the end!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!

Christ and His church are one! Jn 15:1-5 Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Church has authority from Christ!

Church is free from all error!

Mt 16:18 & mt 18:18

Mt 28:19-20

Acts 1:17

acts 8:31 & 35

Lk 10:16

Jn 8:32

Jn 13:20

Jn 15:5

Jn 16:13

Jn 20:21-22

eph 2:20

acts 2:42

1 Tim 3:15
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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The one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is an extension church of Christ’s ministry of redemption to the whole world and all time!

Christ perpetuates his mission, power, and authority in the holy church!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15


What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Eph 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors, it is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4 Jn 20:21-23
 

Josiah

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MARK -

It appears you want to replace Jesus as the Savior with your church..... OR you are attempting to derail the thread to an attempt to defend the claim of your church or itself.

Jesus never once mentioned your church - for anything or about anything. I appreciate you quoting those verses because they prove my point... NONE of the claims your church makes for itself are supported by Scripture. As for the remarkable claim it itself for it itself, we've discussed that before. For example: Matthew 16:18 and the RCC's Claim of a Papacy of Itself


To the thread: I agree that Jesus is the Way - not me, not Buddha, not Muhammad, not Joseph Smith, not Jim Jones, not the LCMS or UMC, nope.... Jesus. It's why I'm a Christian.




.
 
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Lamb

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It seems my bible study has gone astray. It's not about the Roman Catholic Church.
 

Andy

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Peter's confession of faith that "Jesus is the Christ, Son of the loving God" is foundation for the Church. It did not elevate Peter to high executor of God's will to implement dogmas (i.e. "papel succession"), this defense by the RCC is rather recent.
Before it was based on Timothy regarding Paul's instruction to pass down the teachings of the Apostles from one generation to the next (Tradition), however once Rome made Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire the Church conformed to a hierarchical model and would eventually have to address the question of Roman Catholic papal powers.

Jesus is indeed the way the truth and the life.. to convince yourself and others that the door into the fold of the sheep is through the Pope of Rome and not through Jesus Christ makes you a thief and a robber.
John 10:1
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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Questions for Andrew

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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Peter is already administering the kingdom

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as mediator

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Only Peter and his successors have the keys (jurisdictional authority) from Christ to govern the church and administer the kingdom! Matt 16:18-19 Isa 22:21-22

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:




2 Tim 3: 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.





Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Matt 16:17-19

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments


Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

The successors of Moses having kingdom authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Mt 23 was taken from them Mt 21:43 and given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: Mt 16:18 Mt 18:18 and Jesus says this power and authority is to be obeyed!
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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Rom 13:2
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
(If it applies to civil authority, how much more to religious authority)

Mt 28:18-20
all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end!

Lk 10:16 He who hears you hears me...
(The apostles and their successors)

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Without a central authority there can be no unity of the spirit, no obedience to the faith!
God - Christ - Peter - the apostles - the apostles successors - the people

Hierarchy is the nature of authority!

God always establishes order in obedience to hierarchical authority!

The angelic order!
The church order!
The family order!
The civil order!

All require obedience to hierarchical authority!

The church is not a democracy but a kingdom!

They are not God, not the king, not the founder!
But equal with Christ yes!
As far as roles go, Jesus is the head of the church, Peter is the head of the church on earth Mt 16:18 and leader of the apostles Mt 10:2 administers of the kingdom in the absence of the king. Acts 1:9 Jn 21:17 and Peter, the apostles and their successors are sent in the same way as Jesus!

Jn 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
They are God breathed!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20


Peter is the one who calls for Judas Iscariot to be replaced, leading to the election of the Apostle Matthias (Acts 1:15-26).
Peter is the one who preaches the sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40).
When they are called before the Jewish authorities, Peter is the one who gives the speech in their defense (Acts 4:8-12).
Peter is the one who confronts Annanias and Sapphira about their lie (Acts 5:3-9).
The people of Jerusalem place the sick in the streets so that Peter's shadow might fall on them (Acts 5:15).
When the apostles are imprisoned as a group, miraculously freed, and then appear before the authorities, Peter speaks for them, saying that they must obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29-32).
Peter confronts Simon Magus (Acts 8:20-23).
Peter heals the paralyzed Aeneas (Acts 9:32-34).
Peter raises Dorcas from the dead (Acts 9:37-41)
Peter’s name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Mt 10:2, Mk 3:16, Lk 6:14, Acts 1:13), except Galatians 2.
Peter is named first amongst the list of the apostles. (Matthew 10:2).
Peter alone receives a new name, Rock, solemnly conferred (Jn 1:42, Mt 16:18).
Peter is regarded by Jesus as the Chief Shepherd after himself (Jn 21:15-17), singularly by name, and over the universal Church, even though others have a similar but subordinate role (Acts 20:28, 1 Pt 5:2).
Peter alone among the apostles is mentioned by name as having been prayed for by Jesus Christ in order that his “faith may not fail” (Lk 22:32).
Peter alone among the apostles is exhorted by Jesus to “strengthen your brethren” (Lk 22:32).
Peter first confesses Christ’s divinity (Mt 16:16).
Peter alone is told that he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation (Mt 16:17).
At God’s behest, Peter admits the first gentiles to the Church (Acts 10-11).
Peter (unlike James son of Zebedee) is miraculously delivered from prison and martyrdom (Acts 12:1-18).
Peter is regarded by the Jews (Acts 4:1-13) as the leader and spokesman of Christianity.
Peter is regarded by the common people in the same way (Acts 2:37-41; 5:15).
Peter gave the sermon at Pentecost (Acts 1:14-36)
Peter led the replacing of Judas (1:22),
Peter worked the first miracle of the Church age (3:6-12).
Peter’s name appears at least 54 times in Acts;
 

Faithhopeandcharity

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Testimony of the fathers

Irenaeus
“The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome] . . . handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus” (Against Heresies 3:3:3 [A.D. 189]).

“Victor . . . was the thirteenth bishop of Rome from Peter” [A.D. 211], in Eusebius, Church History 5:28:3).

Cyprian of Carthage
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. . . . If someone [today] does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; first edition [A.D. 251]).

Eusebius of Caesarea
“Paul testifies that Crescens was sent to Gaul [2 Tim. 4:10], but Linus, whom he mentions in the Second Epistle to Timothy [2 Tim. 4:21] as his companion at Rome, was Peter’s successor in the episcopate of the church there, as has already been shown. Clement also, who was appointed third bishop of the church at Rome, was, as Paul testifies, his co-laborer and fellow-soldier [Phil. 4:3]” (Church History 3:4:9–10 [A.D. 312]).

Pope Julius I
“[The] judgment [against Athanasius] ought to have been made, not as it was, but according to the ecclesiastical canon. . . . Are you ignorant that the custom has been to write first to us and then for a just decision to be passed from this place [Rome]? If, then, any such suspicion rested upon the bishop there [Athanasius of Alexandria], notice of it ought to have been written to the church here. But now, after having done as they pleased, they want to obtain our concurrence, although we never condemned him. Not thus are the constitutions of Paul, not thus the traditions of the Fathers. This is another form of procedure, and a novel practice. . . . What I write about this is for the common good. For what we have heard from the blessed apostle Peter, these things I signify to you” (Letter on Behalf of Athanasius [A.D. 341], contained in Athanasius, Apology Against the Arians 20–35).

Council of Sardica
f any bishop loses the judgment in some case [decided by his fellow bishops] and still believes that he has not a bad but a good case, in order that the case may be judged anew . . . let us honor the memory of the apostle Peter by having those who have given the judgment write to Julius, bishop of Rome, so that if it seem proper he may himself send arbiters and the judgment may be made again by the bishops of a neighboring province” (Canon 3 [A.D. 342]).

Optatus
“You cannot deny that you are aware that in the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head—that is why he is also called Cephas [‘Rock’]—of all the apostles; the one chair in which unity is maintained by all” (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [A.D. 367]).

Epiphanius of Salamis
“At Rome the first apostles and bishops were Peter and Paul, then Linus, then Cletus, then Clement, the contemporary of Peter and Paul” (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 27:6 [A.D. 375]).

Pope Damasus I
“Likewise it is decreed: . . . [W]e have considered that it ought to be announced that . . . the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first see [today], therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it” (Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]).

Jerome
“[Pope] Stephen . . . was the blessed Peter’s twenty-second successor in the See of Rome” (Against the Luciferians 23 [A.D. 383]).

“Clement, of whom the apostle Paul writing to the Philippians says ‘With Clement and others of my fellow-workers whose names are written in the book of life,’ the fourth bishop of Rome after Peter, if indeed the second was Linus and the third Anacletus, although most of the Latins think that Clement was second after the apostle” (Lives of Illustrious Men 15 [A.D. 396]).

“Since the East, shattered as it is by the long-standing feuds, subsisting between its peoples, is bit by bit tearing into shreds the seamless vest of the Lord . . . I think it my duty to consult the chair of Peter, and to turn to a church [Rome] whose faith has been praised by Paul [Rom. 1:8]. I appeal for spiritual food to the church whence I have received the garb of Christ. . . . Evil children have squandered their patrimony; you alone keep your heritage intact” (Letters 15:1 [A.D. 396]).

“I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails” (ibid., 15:2).

“The church here is split into three parts, each eager to seize me for its own. . . . Meanwhile I keep crying, ‘He that is joined to the chair of Peter is accepted by me!’” (ibid., 16:2).

Ambrose of Milan
“[T]hey [the Novatian heretics] have not the succession of Peter, who hold not the chair of Peter, which they rend by wicked schism; and this, too, they do, wickedly denying that sins can be forgiven [by the sacrament of confession] even in the Church, whereas it was said to Peter: ‘I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever thou shall loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven’[Matt. 16:19]” (Penance 1:7:33 [A.D. 388]).

Augustine
“If the very order of episcopal succession is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them from Peter himself, to whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said, ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church’ . . . [Matt. 16:18]. Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement, Clement by Anacletus, Anacletus by Evaristus . . . ” (Letters53:1:2 [A.D. 412]).

Council of Ephesus
“Philip the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See said: ‘There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors. The holy and most blessed pope Celestine, according to due order, is his successor and holds his place, and us he sent to supply his place in this holy synod’” (Acts of the Council, session 3 [A.D. 431]).

Pope Leo I
“As for the resolution of the bishops which is contrary to the Nicene decree, in union with your faithful piety, I declare it to be invalid and annul it by the authority of the holy apostle Peter” (Letters110 [A.D. 445]).

Peter Chrysologus
“We exhort you in every respect, honorable brother, to heed obediently what has been written by the most blessed pope of the city of Rome, for blessed Peter, who lives and presides in his own see, provides the truth of faith to those who seek it. For we, by reason of our pursuit of peace and faith, cannot try cases on the faith without the consent of the bishop of Rome” (Letters 25:2 [A.D. 449]).

Council of Chalcedon
“After the reading of the foregoing epistle [The Tome of Leo], the most reverend bishops cried out: ‘This is the faith of the fathers! This is the faith of the apostles! So we all believe! Thus the orthodox believe! Anathema to him who does not thus believe! Peter has spoken thus through Leo! . . . This is the true faith! Those of us who are orthodox thus believe! This is the faith of the Fathers!’” (Acts of the Council, session 2 [A.D. 451]).
 

Josiah

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Mark,


CORRECT. Never does Scripture say that The Catholic Church is the way and the truth and the life. In fact (as you so often prove), Scripture says nothing about The Catholic Church.

Your strong attempt to get the focus OFF of Christ and instead on your church is very telling. And disturbing.



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Faithhopeandcharity

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Mark,


CORRECT. Never does Scripture say that The Catholic Church is the way and the truth and the life. In fact (as you so often prove), Scripture says nothing about The Catholic Church.

Your strong attempt to get the focus OFF of Christ and instead on your church is very telling. And disturbing.



.
How many churches do you see here
Matt 16:18-19
Jn 10:16???
 

Lamb

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Josiah

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Matt 16:18-19
Jn 10:16???


Thanks for confirming my point: No mention of your church. Nope. Isn't there.

And your attempt in this thread to get the focus OFF Christ and instead on your church is very telling (and disgusting).




The Bible uses the word "CHURCH" in two very different ways:



CHURCH. (invisible)

"The one, holy, catholic community of saints" as most Christians proclaim each Sunday. This is PEOPLE, the PEOPLE of God. ALL those to whom God has given the divine gifts of faith, spiritual life, justification (narrow) and the Holy Spirit. It is the entire corpus of such (both on earth and now in heaven). It is "invisible" in the sense that it is not a human/geopolical/legal/economic entity but is "visible" in the sense that faith among the faithful is observable. It is ONE (because we are one body, one family, brothers and sisters in Christ), united in our faith in CHRIST as THE (one, only, exclusive) Savior. It is HOLY because all in it are forgiven via that faith in that Savior. It is CATHOLIC because it embraces ALL believers everywhere and in every time, it is a communion because we are united into one spiritual entity.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Ephesians 4:4
1 Peter 2:9
Romans 12:4
Ephesians 1:1
Luke 17:21



CONGREGATION/PARISH

Example: Good Shepherd Catholic Church of Beverly Hills, CA. Concordia Lutheran Church of Jamestown, ND.

A congregation is a gathering of Christian people in a given place and time. They gather together by their Lord's direction to worship, study, serve/minister, grow, support, love and hold each other accountable. They MAY put institutional aspects into place (name, constitution/by laws, articles of corporation, budgets, officers, property, etc.) so that that association has institutional aspects or simply may be Christians who gather in some living room. While the word "church" is often used for this too, it is NOT to be confused with THE Church - the one, holy, catholic, communion of saints: these associations are at most a tiny and current subset of THE Church. There are tens of millions of congregations in the world, very few last more than a century so they tend to have a beginning and an end. It is NOT divinely mandated that all Christians associate into some congregation/parish, but many do and many believe this is a good thing but there are hundreds of millions of "non-congregational" Christians.

Galatians 1:2
1 Thessalonians 1:1
Revelation 1:4
1 Corinthians 1:2


The word "CHURCH" has two additional meanings in modern English. These meanings are not found in Scripture:



DENOMINATION

Examples: "The United Church of Christ" "The Orthodox Presbyterian Church" "The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod" "The Greek Orthodox Church" "The Catholic Church"

At times, a group of congregations MAY choose to associate together - forming an institution of them, an association of congregations.

This USUALLY is a formal institution - but it can at times simply refer to a common creed among congregations (as in "the Lutheran denomination" - there actually are over 300 Lutheran denomination institutions, but theoretically, most share a common creed, the Lutheran Confessions). These congregations associate together into denominations for similar reasons that Christians associate into congregations: for the purposes of mutual edification, ministry, support and accountability. Some of these are extremely "loose" (the "United Church of Christ" in the USA would be an example), the most radical forms are very strong they even may actually legally own and operate the member congregations (the Catholic Church or the Episcopal Church USA are examples of very radical, extreme denominations).

Congregations can be denominational (as most are) or non-denominational. Denominational ones are associated with other congregations - with a common formal statement of faith and often with some governance above and outside itself, whereas non-denominational ones are independent and autonomous. There is no divine mandate that a congregation be denominational (and millions aren't) but most are and most believe this is a benefit.

There are no Scriptures that mention denominations. Many hold that none clearly existed until the Roman Empire formed "The Roman Church" in the early 4th Century, created by itself for itself in the image of itself.

Some definitions:

From religioustolerance.com
Denomination: an established religious group, typically uniting a group of individual, local congregations into a single administrative body.


From thefreedictionary.com
Denomination: "A group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy."


From onlinedictionary.com
Denomination: "a group of religious congregations having its own organization and often a distinctive faith."


From Allwords.com
Denomination: "a group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith."


American Heritage Dictionary:
Denomination: "A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy."


Is the RCC a denomination? It is unless one insists that it has no Catechism or beliefs, that is has no bishops or archbishops or cardinals or pope, that each priest is entirely autonomous, that each parish is absolutely independent and has nothing to do with ANY other parish.


BUILDING

The word is often used for a building used for religious purposes by Christians.



- Josiah



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Lamb

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There is only one Jn 10:16

And that verse says nothing...absolutely nothing...about the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, that denomination wasn't even created yet. He was speaking to the Jews.
 

Josiah

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And that verse says nothing...absolutely nothing...about the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, that denomination wasn't even created yet.


Bingo.



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