Does GOD Contradict HIMSELF or Do We Misunderstand HIS WORD ?

hjhsjnsshdjdh

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Why do so many people believe that GOD takes back HIS promise of eternal life, salvation, and a home in Heaven ? It is hard for me to understand why people cannot, will not or do not want to believe that GOD saves to the uttermost, once for all time. When a truly born again / saved child of GOD is SEALED in CHRIST by the permanent indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT - Who is it that can take them out of HIS hand or Who is it that can remove our SEAL and GUARANTEE (the HOLY SPIRIT) unto the day of redemption.

GOD said, " I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you." Deut.31:6b & Hebrews 13:5b How hard is that to understand ?

GOD said, "He that hath the SON hath life; and he that hath not the SON of GOD hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the SON of GOD; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the SON of GOD. 1st.John 5:12-13

GOD said, "He that believes on the SON hath everlasting life: and he that believes not the SON shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abides on him." John 3:36

GOD said, "MY sheep hear MY voice, and I know them, and they follow ME: and I give unto them eternal life: and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of MY hand. MY FATHER, which gave them ME, is greater than all: and no man is able to pluck them out of MY FATHER's hand. I and MY FATHER are ONE." John 10:28-30

GOD said, "But after that the kindness and love of GOD our SAVIOR toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to HIS mercy HE saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the HOLY SPIRIT; which HE shed on us abundantly through JESUS CHRIST our SAVIOR; that being justified by HIS grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:4-7

I could go on and on with GOD's promises within HIS WORD that give us full assurance of our Salvation, once truly born again by the SPIRIT and the WORD. IF a child of GOD could lose his or her salvation then why give us any assurance verses at all, why give us a warning in Hebrews 13 about the LORD's chastening, why tell us in 1st.John 1 to confess our sins and HE is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If a child of GOD has no assurance of his or her salvation then we had better just sit in a corner in a coma and never say, think or do anything with our lives at all, if GOD can just 'kick us to the curb' for any and all reasons that we have to live up to.

Our righteousness, eternal security, home in Heaven, justification, is all of CHRIST, and not of us. Hell was created solely for the Devil and his angels (demons), but those who refuse GOD's free gift of Salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST, are forever condemned to go there. But HIS child is firmly planted in HIS hand, permanently indwelt by HIS HOLY SPIRIT and when we are in prayer we are seen by the FATHER, in CHRIST. NOW WHO IS STRONG ENOUGH TO TAKE US OUT OF CHRIST or TAKE CHRIST OUT OF US ?

When I was very young in the LORD and worried that I was not sincere enough when I asked the LORD into my heart to save me - a very wise Pastor told me, "Julie, the LORD wants to save you much more than you want HIM to, that is why it is all done by HIM and not any work that we could ever do." IF you are truly a child of GOD, HE will NEVER leave you nor forsake you, never, ever !
 

Izzie12

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Very sweet words mama. Very sweet words.
The never ending love of God.

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Josiah

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Why do so many people believe that GOD takes back HIS promise of eternal life, salvation, and a home in Heaven ?

Who does that? I've not heard such a position.

Of course, God also warns Christians not to fall away, and that's true too.




When a truly born again / saved child of GOD is SEALED in CHRIST by the permanent indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT - Who is it that can take them out of HIS hand or Who is it that can remove our SEAL and GUARANTEE (the HOLY SPIRIT) unto the day of redemption.

Just one of the many HORRORS of the OSAS position invented by a few radical Calvinists in the late 16th Century..... They changed the focus from the quality of Christ to the quality of OUR faith; the object of faith becoming irrelevant and the issue becomes whether our faith in Christ is sufficiently "true" "genuine" "pure" to give a few of the qualifiers these Calvinists subsituted (all teachings absent in the Bible and in 1500 years of Christianity). Of course, while everyone can know the OBJECT of their faith, it is impossible for ANYONE to know if their faith is "sufficiently pure, true, genuine, authentic" - big ENOUGH. OSAS forces all to ignore the OBJECT of faith and place everything on whether our faith is "good" "true" "pure" "authentic" "sufficient" so that the issue in salvation is no longer Christ (an objective, knowable reality) but rather the HIGHLY subjective and entirely unknowable issue of whether one's faith is good ENOUGH.




GOD said, " I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you." Deut.31:6b & Hebrews 13:5b How hard is that to understand ?

NONE of the following are "hard to understand."
It's just that some insist on disagreeing with God on many of them; they feel God goofed and THEY are so brilliant, so divinely "lead" and so very spiritual that God has personally appointed THEM to correct God and get Him out of a contradiction; they do that for God by "interpreting" some of the verses so that they "mean" the exact opposite of what they say..... or that the quality of Christ's work is meaningless and the REAL issue is whether one's faith is "real" enough, "pure" enough, "true" enough, "genuine" enough - all missing from any of the verses because, they insist, God goofed by not saying that cuz it's the quality of faith that matters, not the object of faith; faith the size of a mustard seed sends you to hell.


Gospel:


Romans 8:29-39, For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. "

Mark 13:22, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.

John 4:14, "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 20:28, I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

1 Thess. 5:24, "The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Hebrews 10:14, "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Rev. 3:5, "I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels."



Law:

John 15:4-7, "Remain in me, and I will remain in you... If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Rev. 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

John 8:31, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really My disciples."

Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

Gal. 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Col. 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

Hebrews 10:26, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

2 Peter 1:8-10, "But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Rev. 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.

Luke 12:8, "He who disowns Me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."


Some points:

1. This is a Law/Gospel issue.

2. We need to accept ALL God says with deep humility, a willing embrace of MYSTERY, a willingness to embrace that what is is what is, an unwillingness to insist God often goofed and He appointed ME to correct Him via MY spin to correct Him.

3. We need to approach with "Pastoral" glasses. Every one the above verses are offered as truths for CHRISTIANS in specific situations - some needed comfort/assurance, some needed correction/warning.




When I was very young in the LORD and worried that I was not sincere enough when I asked the LORD into my heart to save me - a very wise Pastor told me, "Julie, the LORD wants to save you much more than you want HIM to, that is why it is all done by HIM and not any work that we could ever do." IF you are truly a child of GOD, HE will NEVER leave you nor forsake you, never, ever !

Just one more reason to reject OSAS that entirely, wholly, absolutely depends on the SINCERITY, the PURITY, the GENUINENESS, the QUALITY, the TRUE nature and quality/quantity of your faith.... are you sincere ENOUGH so that you REALLY, TRULY, SINCERELY have faith? THAT is the sole issue.... not WHO you trust but how SINCERELY and TRULY you trust and if it's ENOUGH? You can't know.... no one can.... but the entirety of salvation rests on THAT single issue in OSAS. You may have faith in Christ.... but is that faith TRUE, SINCERE, PURE, GENUINE, SINCERE enough?




.
 
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atpollard

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OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) is not identical to Perseverance of the Saints (from the Doctrines of Grace and the Synod of Dort).
The Saints (those “elect” who were FOREKNOWN and PREDESTINED and CALLED by God) will Persevere (be JUSTIFIED and GLORIFIED by God). (Romans 8:28-30)
Those not drawn by the Father, cannot come to the Son and will not be raised on the last day (John 6:44)
Those not given by the Father are not of Jesus’ flock; those not of Jesus’ flock do not believe because they are not of Jesus’ flock. (John 10:24-30)
There is NOW no condemnation for those that believe in Jesus, but those that do not believe are ALREADY condemned. (John 3:18)
 

Josiah

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OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) is not identical to Perseverance of the Saints (from the Doctrines of Grace and the Synod of Dort).

Agreed. Everyone agrees with "Perseverance of the Saints" (the Gospel).

Only a tiny minority of radical Reformed accept OSAS (I've never met a Reformed Christians who agrees with OSAS) and it's denial of the Law.
 

hjhsjnsshdjdh

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I go by GOD's WORD and HE has said that I will never leave you nor forsake you. This OSAS that people use and the Synod of Dort (which I have never heard of) have no bearing on how and what I believe. It is strictly from the WORD of GOD and as a little child I simply believe what HE says.
 

Lämmchen

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Lucian Hodoboc

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If you believe that Jesus died for your sins then you are a child of God.
Wow! Ok... What if (hypothetical question) believe that, but don't like it because we find it irrational?
 

Lämmchen

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Wow! Ok... What if (hypothetical question) believe that, but don't like it because we find it irrational?
Well, it's not something that makes sense to us as humans how someone's death can atone for every sin of every man since the beginning of time until the end. But yet, that's what God chose to do for us because only HE could be the propitiation...we can't save ourselves. Faith is a gift that comes from Him to believe although our faith is not yet perfected so we will have our doubts at times.
 

atpollard

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Wow! Ok... What if (hypothetical question) believe that, but don't like it because we find it irrational?
What is "believe" ...

[Romans 1:18-23 NLT]
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.


[Romans 10:8-11 NLT]
In fact, it says, "The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart."And that message is the very message about faith that we preach:
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced."


For an external indicator, which list describes your life:

[Galatians 5:19-23 NLT]
When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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What is "believe" ...

[Romans 1:18-23 NLT]
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.


[Romans 10:8-11 NLT]
In fact, it says, "The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart."And that message is the very message about faith that we preach:
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced."


For an external indicator, which list describes your life:

[Galatians 5:19-23 NLT]
When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!
Got it. Unless a last-minute miracle happens, I appear to be doomed. :sweat:
 

Lämmchen

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Got it. Unless a last-minute miracle happens, I appear to be doomed. :sweat:
If we look to ourselves and what we do, the Law condemns us and we feel doomed.

When we look to Jesus who died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins we should see nothing but redemption since those sins that the Law condemns are forgiven and we are declared Not Guilty!
 
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