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Krissy Cakes

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tango

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It's no surprise that immigrants without an SSN don't get money. Why would a government hand out free money to temporary residents and to people who aren't supposed to be in the country at all?
 

Krissy Cakes

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It's no surprise that immigrants without an SSN don't get money. Why would a government hand out free money to temporary residents and to people who aren't supposed to be in the country at all?

I understand but what about the rest of us?
Thank goodness they have a list of question I and each resident have to answer and then we get our temp taken.
 

tango

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It's curious the way they decided who does and who doesn't get the money.

The way advice seems to be going it seems to me that it would have been much easier to keep the economy going more or less as usual, send a dozen washable face masks to every person (adult, child, whatever) and ask people to wear them. 12 masks would cost a lot less than $1200 per person and it would save the social and economic carnage that the shutdown will cause.

As many commentators have said, if your state governor has decreed you're on the list of people who aren't permitted to go and earn a living but you still have bills to pay, getting $1200 at some unknown point in the future doesn't really cut it.
 

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The IRS website explains it..

Tax filers with adjusted gross income up to $75,000 for individuals and up to $150,000 for married couples filing joint returns will receive the full payment. For filers with income above those amounts, the payment amount is reduced by $5 for each $100 above the $75,000/$150,000 thresholds. Single filers with income exceeding $99,000 and $198,000 for joint filers with no children are not eligible. Social Security recipients and railroad retirees who are otherwise not required to file a tax return are also eligible and will not be required to file a return.

Eligible taxpayers who filed tax returns for either 2019 or 2018 will automatically receive an economic impact payment of up to $1,200 for individuals or $2,400 for married couples and up to $500 for each qualifying child.
 

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Yeah some people won't get it. I can see that. It's part of every day life I guess. We don't always get what we want. The fact is at the very least they're giving it to people who may have lost their job. That's the most important thing.
 

tango

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Yeah some people won't get it. I can see that. It's part of every day life I guess. We don't always get what we want. The fact is at the very least they're giving it to people who may have lost their job. That's the most important thing.

It would be more useful to get those people back to work. $1200 doesn't go far in a lot of places and does nothing to offset the very real fears a lot of people are experiencing, not knowing when their fuhrer governor might be gracious enough to allow them to earn a living again.
 

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It would be more useful to get those people back to work. $1200 doesn't go far in a lot of places and does nothing to offset the very real fears a lot of people are experiencing, not knowing when their fuhrer governor might be gracious enough to allow them to earn a living again.

I think this will all settle over soon enough. It seems the money was probably just intended for a short period of time. They're already talking on the news where I live that they are going to be lifting the stay-at-home order. So that's good news to hear. As for the people who actually lost their jobs that's the saddest part. I have a friend who has a young son and is about to have a daughter born and apparently he actually completely lost his job over it.
 

tango

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I think this will all settle over soon enough. It seems the money was probably just intended for a short period of time. They're already talking on the news where I live that they are going to be lifting the stay-at-home order. So that's good news to hear. As for the people who actually lost their jobs that's the saddest part. I have a friend who has a young son and is about to have a daughter born and apparently he actually completely lost his job over it.

Part of the problem is that there's just no information - we're getting a sense of "two more weeks", "two more weeks" with no indication of just when the silliness will stop. Even if the money was intended for a short period, $1200 isn't even enough for a month's rent for many people, especially in cities.

People who have lost their jobs will have trouble paying bills, leading to a tidal wave of defaults on everything from utility bills to mortgages to credit cards. That's potentially a huge problem. States will lose huge amounts of tax revenue, which means one or more of more borrowing, more taxes, or service cuts.

The real problem comes when companies close their doors permanently. Not only does it mean those jobs go away but, given the recent precedent, it's easy to see why people would be reluctant to start new businesses. It's hard to imagine someone being willing to take the risk of either investing or borrowing money to start a business, knowing that they might be shut down at a moment's notice.
 

Lämmchen

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I thought we were only supposed to flatten the curve and then things would open up. Didn't we do that?
 

tango

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I thought we were only supposed to flatten the curve and then things would open up. Didn't we do that?

That would depend on which positioning of the goalposts you're talking about.

Firstly it was about flattening the curve. That makes some sense, even if there is a lot of scope to disagree with the best way of doing it. Now it seems it's about scoring political points while spouting lots of meaningless platitudes.

Apparently we can look forward to a "data driven" process of reopening. I'm not sure what the alternative is - maybe just making it up as you go along, which looked remarkably like the way the shutdown process worked. But it seems that the governor wants to decide when to reopen while keeping the option of blaming the president. You can't open until there's enough PPE, the president hasn't given us the PPE so, sorry guys, we can't reopen and it's Someone Else's fault.

The initial idea of flattening the curve was more about slowing cases than reducing them. If you can't prevent it from spreading you can slow the rate people go to hospital so the hospital isn't overwhelmed. Now it seems the hospitals are saying the predicted surge in patients just hasn't happened but still the curve has to go lower. Hey, there's an economy that also needs to be flattened. You'd almost be forgiven for thinking there was a major event in the next few months that needed to be disrupted.

Of course as soon as we open up again there will be more infections. Unless everybody is literally confined in an individual cell until everyone is confirmed clear the virus isn't going to go away so I wouldn't put another lockdown past the fuhrer, most likely implemented in as cack-handed a way as the last one was. Good luck to the businesses playing their game of Guess When We Get Shut Down Next. Just for added fun we can guess what happens when international travel starts up again.
 

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Of course if everyone decides this is a bunch of hooey and all open up hten problem solved
 

tango

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Of course if everyone decides this is a bunch of hooey and all open up hten problem solved

Not necessarily - any business that requires a state-issued license may find their license revoked for disobeying the fuhrer. There's a question in there about why the state should be involved in licensing many of the things it currently licenses but perhaps that's another matter.
 

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Part of the problem is that there's just no information - we're getting a sense of "two more weeks", "two more weeks" with no indication of just when the silliness will stop. Even if the money was intended for a short period, $1200 isn't even enough for a month's rent for many people, especially in cities.

People who have lost their jobs will have trouble paying bills, leading to a tidal wave of defaults on everything from utility bills to mortgages to credit cards. That's potentially a huge problem. States will lose huge amounts of tax revenue, which means one or more of more borrowing, more taxes, or service cuts.

The real problem comes when companies close their doors permanently. Not only does it mean those jobs go away but, given the recent precedent, it's easy to see why people would be reluctant to start new businesses. It's hard to imagine someone being willing to take the risk of either investing or borrowing money to start a business, knowing that they might be shut down at a moment's notice.

Yes I can see one thing is the fact that it's hard to say whether or not this could end in a month or even 6 months though I'm positive they will find some sort of cure before too long. The fact of the matter is when are they going to find it. How long will it take and will the cure be a good one without a bunch of potential side effects. The other post about testing on brazilian people and several dying has me hoping they do not release something to the public that isn't a good drug just because they get desperate. Small businesses like restaurants with possibly only a handful of branches like 40-50 are suffering the most so I agree with you there. I'm just concerned with the job market and the economy and what out-lasting effects it may have in the coming future. There's no telling when the next wave of the virus could come and also the next wave of the economy stock market possibly falling or plummeting again. It has me concerned that this may be another depression on the way. You could say the depression is already here but to be quite honest that's just not the case quite yet. Only because though the stock market suffered it's worst day, regardless the amount it had risen before the plummet is keeping most things under control for the most part. While so many have lost there jobs, there's a handful more that are still employed. A real depression is something that will last throughout the years and not go away. This seems to be a temporary issue. If the economy starts to suffer any more then we may just have another depression on our hands.
 

tango

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We could easily have another depression on our hands if this goes on much longer. There are also many social costs - spousal abuse, child molestation, depression, suicide, substance abuse etc that are already on the rise. At least an adult victim of domestic violence might have some opportunities to escape and call for help; a child suffering at the hands of an abusive parent (or an abusive childminder, if parents have had to use unapproved childminders because daycare centers are closed) has fewer options and isn't coming into contact with mandated reporters any more.

The stupid thing is that none of this will defeat the virus. Even if we could be 100% certain that not a single person in the country is infected and reopen everything, what happens when the first international flight arrives? It makes more sense to isolate the most vulnerable (although if they are adults they should be the ones to make the final decision) and beyond that go about business as usual to the extent possible.

Since the economy is so critically dependent on consumer spending a reopening isn't necessarily enough to get things working again. How will restaurants survive if they are allowed to open but struggle to do business because most of their customers have been laid off? People who got laid off will cut their own grass rather than paying someone to do it, they will clean their own house rather than paying a cleaner, they won't eat out as often, they might go longer between haircuts, and so on. In an economy where my spending is your income that means me getting laid off hurts you as well even if you notionally still have a job.

Still, at least the fuhrer governor reminds us we're all in this together, as he retreats to his mansion on full pay. I wonder if he has sacrificed anything at all, as he talks about "shared sacrifice".
 
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