California Gov wants to ban gas vehicles

Lamb

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California Governor Newsom wants to ban all gas vehicles in his state. But they can't even handle the electricity load in the summer...so how's that going to work?
 

tango

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Don't worry, the people who have never built anything will somehow build back better, right?
 

Josiah

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California Governor Newsom wants to ban all gas vehicles in his state. But they can't even handle the electricity load in the summer...so how's that going to work?


Because electric cars will be powered by energy created by burning gas.

But actually, Newson's goal is to get us all to ride bikes. Which is why he SO wants new construction to not have any parking, and wants current houses torn down to replace them with residences that have no parking. And streets to eliminate street parking and replace that with bike lanes. Bikes don't burn gas (wait a minute, a lot of them do).



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Fritz Kobus

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Every so-called utopian idea has, when implemented, become dystopia, generally with a lot of pain, suffering and death accompanying it.
 

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Because electric cars will be powered by energy created by burning gas.

But actually, Newson's goal is to get us all to ride bikes. Which is why he SO wants new construction to not have any parking, and wants current houses torn down to replace them with residences that have no parking. And streets to eliminate street parking and replace that with bike lanes. Bikes don't burn gas (wait a minute, a lot of them do).



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So everyone lives within biking distance in California? I mean, where I live (not in CA), to get to the nearest store is a 10 minute drive at fast speeds. The grocery store is 15 minutes driving at fast speeds. I hate when city people try to tell country people how to live.
 

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So everyone lives within biking distance in California? I mean, where I live (not in CA), to get to the nearest store is a 10 minute drive at fast speeds. The grocery store is 15 minutes driving at fast speeds. I hate when city people try to tell country people how to live.

That's easy, just move to the city. You know, for the greater good. Or something like that.
 

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It’s a good goal. Not sure whether 2035 is the right date.
 

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This is interesting and it's from 2018 - emphasis in bold mine:


The production of electric vehicles (EVs) requires substantially larger quantities of minerals than internal combustion engine vehicles. Without these minerals, vehicle bodies and critical components such as engine magnets and batteries cannot be built. The needed minerals range from the widely recognizable aluminum, copper and silver, to the more esoteric cobalt, lithium and graphite.

The primary threat to accessing automotive related critical minerals comes from foreign companies and countries restricting production for commercial or political reasons. With lithium, for example, China’s Tianqi Lithium is attempting to purchase a 32 percent stake in one of the world’s largest lithium producer (Chile’s Sociedad Quimica y Minera SA). If Tianqi succeeds in this bid, the two companies will control approximately 70 percent of global lithium supply. If this were to happen, Chinese battery manufacturers would have the ability to distort market prices and availability, and thus greatly reduce the competitiveness of American made batteries and EVs. Additionally, given the nature of China’s economic system, it is quite possible that if U.S.-China relations deteriorate sharply, Tianqi Lithium could be ordered by the Chinese government to manipulate the supply of lithium to advance Chinese state interests.


 

Josiah

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It’s a good goal. Not sure whether 2035 is the right date.


Personally, I would be more supportive of the idea if....


1. The electricity need for the batteries was "green". When all we're doing is transferring the burning of carbon fuels from one place to another, that's not accomplishing much.

2. When the batteries are "green" - not made from a VERY rare, non-recyclable material that takes a terrible toil on the environment. There are several possibilities for this, but all seem many years away from reality. Lithium batteries just aren't practical or good for the planet.

3. If poor people were not mandated to help rich people buy such cars. Right now, rich people are often subsidized, rather heavily, to buy these cars - with taxes, often gas taxes which people of all incomes pay (including those in poverty who either drive cars or use buses). These cars are not affordable or practical without the government picking up part of the tab.... that's just not sustainable.



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Fritz Kobus

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Personally, I would be more supportive of the idea if....


1. The electricity need for the batteries was "green". When all we're doing is transferring the burning of carbon fuels from one place to another, that's not accomplishing much.

2. When the batteries are "green" - not made from a VERY rare, non-recyclable material that takes a terrible toil on the environment. There are several possibilities for this, but all seem many years away from reality. Lithium batteries just aren't practical or good for the planet.

3. If poor people were not mandated to help rich people buy such cars. Right now, rich people are often subsidized, rather heavily, to buy these cars - with taxes, often gas taxes which people of all incomes pay (including those in poverty who either drive cars or use buses). These cars are not affordable or practical without the government picking up part of the tab.... that's just not sustainable.



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For me,

4. If the production and usage of electric cars was purely a function of a free market with zero governmental coercion.
 

tango

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Personally, I would be more supportive of the idea if....


1. The electricity need for the batteries was "green". When all we're doing is transferring the burning of carbon fuels from one place to another, that's not accomplishing much.

2. When the batteries are "green" - not made from a VERY rare, non-recyclable material that takes a terrible toil on the environment. There are several possibilities for this, but all seem many years away from reality. Lithium batteries just aren't practical or good for the planet.

3. If poor people were not mandated to help rich people buy such cars. Right now, rich people are often subsidized, rather heavily, to buy these cars - with taxes, often gas taxes which people of all incomes pay (including those in poverty who either drive cars or use buses). These cars are not affordable or practical without the government picking up part of the tab.... that's just not sustainable.



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I found it curious to see the price of these EVs is offset by a tax credit. Not a government subsidy, a tax credit. A tax credit that only applies if you pay enough tax to benefit from it. So a retired person wanting to spend their savings on an EV gets to pay full price while the higher-paid people buying them get a hefty discount.

Why not just make it a straight discount and be done with it? It gets silly constantly tinkering with everything through the tax system. Healthcare goes through the tax system, EVs go through the tax system, it's ridiculous.

And, as you say, there are the ongoing issues with the components required to make the batteries, the question over whether they can be recycled, the issue of simply shifting emissions elsewhere (all the while we're subjected to endless blather about carbon emissions being a global problem) and so on.

Given how many vehicles on the road only have a single occupant perhaps we would be better served by making smaller vehicles. Most people don't need to drive a honking great truck to their office only to leave it parked all day. When you have a 200lb person driving a 2000lb vehicle you've got a situation in which more or less 90% of the fuel is to move the metal box rather than the occupant. And still people seek out larger vehicles.
 

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California Governor Newsom wants to ban all gas vehicles in his state. But they can't even handle the electricity load in the summer...so how's that going to work?
Maybe President Biden isn't the only serving politician suffering dementia.
 

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The giant mining machines used to mine the minerals needed for the batteries will always rely on diesel. Tesla is coming out with an electric semi truck, but it’s not out yet.

You can’t force technology forward with government edicts. You have to let the scientists advance it forward on its own. Steve Jobs didn’t invent the iPhone because some government official told him to. The switch to all electric vehicles might happen someday far into the future, but we’re not there yet. Teslas are far too expensive for most working families. No government is going to make it happen by passing oppressive and unrealistic laws.

As Marie Antoinette said, “Let them eat cake.”

The rich and powerful are out of tune with reality. They don’t really know what the problem is or how to fix it.
 

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Banning gas vehicles is a short-sighted and uninformed decision. Watch this for a dose of reality.
 

tango

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tango

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I suppose it's just too radical to look to make things more locally.

Instead we've got endless gabbing on about the emissions from cars, all the while trucks belch black smoke and we ship cheap junk half way around the world rather than making a better quality product here. Then there are the companies blathering on about how much they care about the environment as they make things ever-less serviceable and ever-more prone to break a few months after the warranty expires, consigning ever-more stuff to landfill because you can't get a $5 part to fix it.

Everybody cares about the environment as long as all they have to do is a bit of posturing. When it comes to putting real money into the game it seems the big players really don't care but are quite happy to pass the buck to the consumer, who is expected to not only care but pay for every single shortcoming. Because it makes a lot of environmental sense to use water that has been purified to drinking quality to clean the goop out of the awkward corners of some food packaging and then drive it to a recycling center.

It would also be nice if it were easier to make short journeys on foot or on a bicycle but the transportation strategy appears to give very little thought to anything other than the throughput of motor vehicles as fast as possible. So local communities become less walkable and bikeable, so people take their SUV half a mile to the store to buy a quart of milk.
 

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Everybody cares about the environment as long as all they have to do is a bit of posturing. When it comes to putting real money into the game it seems the big players really don't care but are quite happy to pass the buck to the consumer, who is expected to not only care but pay for every single shortcoming. Because it makes a lot of environmental sense to use water that has been purified to drinking quality to clean the goop out of the awkward corners of some food packaging and then drive it to a recycling center.
Good point about recycling. Who knows if it costs more in energy. It was pushed on us by government, so likely is more costly.

How about the folks using drinking water "quality" water for their lawns and washing the car? What a waste of energy. Well I am in Michigan so don't know about the lawn struggles in places like Arizona (maybe lawns are not the best idea there). I never water my lawn in 21 years at this house. Don't fertilize it either. All that does is make it grow more, and more work to mow it (oh there goes more energy).

I put "quality" in quotes above for water quality because many if not most places pollute our drinking water with fluoride. Ugh, just a little poison to keep my teeth healthy. What? Who made them my government dentist?

Oh, I digress, back to gas vehicle bans.
 

tango

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Good point about recycling. Who knows if it costs more in energy. It was pushed on us by government, so likely is more costly.

How about the folks using drinking water "quality" water for their lawns and washing the car? What a waste of energy. Well I am in Michigan so don't know about the lawn struggles in places like Arizona (maybe lawns are not the best idea there). I never water my lawn in 21 years at this house. Don't fertilize it either. All that does is make it grow more, and more work to mow it (oh there goes more energy).

I put "quality" in quotes above for water quality because many if not most places pollute our drinking water with fluoride. Ugh, just a little poison to keep my teeth healthy. What? Who made them my government dentist?

Oh, I digress, back to gas vehicle bans.

On the water quality issue I've often wondered at the rationale behind purifying water, then pumping it through pipes that leak (so the water that leaks is immediately no longer drinking quality), only to be split into pipes that do anything from watering the lawn to washing the car to flushing the toilet to drinking. I've often wondered what proportion of the water purified to drinking quality is used for something that doesn't require anything like that quality.

Part of my thoughts for my home renovation include a water filter and I'm thinking of creating two different water manifolds for filtered and unfiltered water. Sinks will get filtered water and outside taps and toilets will get unfiltered. Chances are the shower and bath will also be unfiltered.
 

Josiah

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Liberals - it's sometimes hard to understand how they think.


In the People's Republic of California (one of the most liberal states in the US, a "ONE PARTY" state)... there is a war on electricity. Voter's have repeatedly passed bonds to build more hydro-electric dams but Dems have blocked all such construction. They have opposed all nuclear reactors, we now have one less. Of course, gas fired generators are not welcomed. And it seems wind power (which they like) just can't do it. There's lots of talk of coming blackouts and brownouts - just not enough power. We are constantly told to raise the temp of our A/C, don't use major appliance at peak times, etc., etc., etc. Just not enough electricity.

Yet, they want to help rich people buy electric cars. The libs give a very generous TAX CREDIT for buying one (which means, thinking people won't pay the actual price, they have to be bribed). But it's not a rebate, it's a TAX CREDIT which means only a few top earners are going to fully benefit.

Now, many people read what's happening here in the People's Republic of California.... and scratch their heads. We Californians realize: this is just liberals being liberal. Don't think about it because they aren't.



BTW, there's talk of Newsom running for president. Don't laugh at what happens in California politics, it could soon be national politics. Being a one-party state... with no opposition and the press and courts in their pocket, liberals are free to be themselves. What you see in CA is what they want in the USA.




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