Body randomly assigned at birth?

Lämmchen

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Eli Lilly has a new commercial out that starts off like this, “The body you are randomly assigned at birth…”

That commercial bothers me for one because God isn't randomly assigning bodies. And secondly, the statement makes it appear as if we aren't human until birth.

Here's an article about the ad:

What do you think about it?
 

Forgiven1

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Everything about us; male/female and race are assigned at conception by God. The ad also seems to portray whites as rich and other races as poor. I do agree that medicine is for all, but this ad is woke.
 

Tigger

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I’m not an expert on this topic but from what I’ve gathered from the historic church teachings is that to be human we are ‘uniquely‘ created (at conception) as body and soul and ultimately will spend eternity as body and soul uniquely and completely as it was intended. Randomness is the feeble attempt of a finite mind trying to fathom the workings of an infinite Being.
 

NathanH83

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When they said “the body assigned to you at birth” they probably just weren’t thinking about what they were saying. If you want to get technical about it, then they should say “the body assigned to you at conception”.

Maybe they had some kind of pro-abortion message in it. But it didn’t really sound that way to me.

I mean, it’s kind of like when a kid says they’ve been allergic to peanut butter since birth. That’s not insinuating that they weren’t allergic before birth.

Or when the blind man Jesus healed said that he has been blind since birth. I don’t think that’s insinuating that he wasn’t blind before birth. I mean, his eyes were probably never working, since conception.

It’s just a way of talking. Maybe there’s some pro-abortion message in it, but I didn’t get that impression.
 

JRT

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Everything about us; male/female and race are assigned at conception by God. The ad also seems to portray whites as rich and other races as poor. I do agree that medicine is for all, but this ad is woke.

I have to disagree. I do not agree that God micromanages the universe nor do I believe that our conception, gestation and birth are random, Biology takes care of all that.

You used the word "woke" as somewhat of a perjorative. To me it refers to a person who has experienced an awaking to a reality that previously they had ignored. In particular these days it is often employed when a person realizes that social injustice is often embedded in our laws. The suffragettes back in the day were woke women.
 

JRT

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When they said “the body assigned to you at birth” they probably just weren’t thinking about what they were saying. If you want to get technical about it, then they should say “the body assigned to you at conception”.

Maybe they had some kind of pro-abortion message in it. But it didn’t really sound that way to me.

I mean, it’s kind of like when a kid says they’ve been allergic to peanut butter since birth. That’s not insinuating that they weren’t allergic before birth.

Or when the blind man Jesus healed said that he has been blind since birth. I don’t think that’s insinuating that he wasn’t blind before birth. I mean, his eyes were probably never working, since conception.

It’s just a way of talking. Maybe there’s some pro-abortion message in it, but I didn’t get that impression.

Actually I have never met anyone who was actually pro-abortion but I have met plenty of people who were pro-choice and pro-life
 

NathanH83

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Actually I have never met anyone who was actually pro-abortion but I have met plenty of people who were pro-choice and pro-life

Yea, saying “pro-choice” doesn’t even sound honest to me. Choice has nothing to do with it. It has to do with abortion, murder, and death.

I should really call them “pro-murder.”
 

JRT

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Yea, saying “pro-choice” doesn’t even sound honest to me. Choice has nothing to do with it. It has to do with abortion, murder, and death.

I should really call them “pro-murder.”

Not all Christians regard abortion in the same way that you do. The issue is whether or not society has any right to decide what goes on with a woman's body without any regard as to what she wants.

It is obvious that both the female egg and the male sperm have a form of life but no one would call either a person. When they unite to form a zygote it certainly is alive. There is a potential person there and a great many people would claim that it actually is a person. Let us grant for a moment that the zygote is a person and let us call that person Mary. I choose a female name since all embryos are female until about the sixth or seventh week.

Now, we all know that a zygote develops into an embryo through the process of cell division. Every now and again the first cell division does not produce a two celled embryo but rather a second zygote --- identical twins. Did Mary suddenly become two persons? Was Mary two persons to begin with? Was Mary even a person to begin with? Let us set those questions aside for the moment and grant that the second zygote is also a person whom we shall call Margaret. It is entirely possible that one or both of these zygotes could divide again to result in triplets, quadruplets, quintuplets etc. The same question applies as to whether one person can became two, three or more persons. When does a person become a person?


These questions might be difficult enough but now it becomes even more complex. Sometimes two eggs are fertilized to form non-identical twins. Once again, let us call them Mary and Margaret. Rarely the two zygotes merge together again to form a two celled embryo. This is called a chimera. Who is this new embryo? Is it Mary or is it Margaret? This new embryo, this chimera, let us call it Mary, develops to term and is born. There is now no question at all that Mary is indeed a person. But here is the odd thing, some of the organs of Mary carry her genes but other organs carry the genes of her twin sister Margaret. So Margaret continues to exist within Mary or perhaps it is Mary within Margaret. Do we have two persons within a single body?


These very serious questions of person-hood arise only if we assume that the soul is infused at conception and that the brand new zygote is fully a person. Is there a more reasonable understanding? I believe there is. Personally I believe that the developing fetus becomes a person only when it is able to survive outside the womb. Sentience occurs at about the same point in the pregnancy very late in the second trimester. For this reason I am against abortion beyond the twentieth week except in very rare extreme circumstances.. Otherwise I believe that abortion should be legal, it should be safe, it should be available and it should be the woman’s informed choice but most important of all --- it should be rare. In conclusion, we should always keep in mind that there are no more powerful abortifacients in the world than poverty and ignorance.
 

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Not all Christians regard abortion in the same way that you do. The issue is whether or not society has any right to decide what goes on with a woman's body without any regard as to what she wants.

It is obvious that both the female egg and the male sperm have a form of life but no one would call either a person. When they unite to form a zygote it certainly is alive. There is a potential person there and a great many people would claim that it actually is a person. Let us grant for a moment that the zygote is a person and let us call that person Mary. I choose a female name since all embryos are female until about the sixth or seventh week.

Now, we all know that a zygote develops into an embryo through the process of cell division. Every now and again the first cell division does not produce a two celled embryo but rather a second zygote --- identical twins. Did Mary suddenly become two persons? Was Mary two persons to begin with? Was Mary even a person to begin with? Let us set those questions aside for the moment and grant that the second zygote is also a person whom we shall call Margaret. It is entirely possible that one or both of these zygotes could divide again to result in triplets, quadruplets, quintuplets etc. The same question applies as to whether one person can became two, three or more persons. When does a person become a person?


These questions might be difficult enough but now it becomes even more complex. Sometimes two eggs are fertilized to form non-identical twins. Once again, let us call them Mary and Margaret. Rarely the two zygotes merge together again to form a two celled embryo. This is called a chimera. Who is this new embryo? Is it Mary or is it Margaret? This new embryo, this chimera, let us call it Mary, develops to term and is born. There is now no question at all that Mary is indeed a person. But here is the odd thing, some of the organs of Mary carry her genes but other organs carry the genes of her twin sister Margaret. So Margaret continues to exist within Mary or perhaps it is Mary within Margaret. Do we have two persons within a single body?


These very serious questions of person-hood arise only if we assume that the soul is infused at conception and that the brand new zygote is fully a person. Is there a more reasonable understanding? I believe there is. Personally I believe that the developing fetus becomes a person only when it is able to survive outside the womb. Sentience occurs at about the same point in the pregnancy very late in the second trimester. For this reason I am against abortion beyond the twentieth week except in very rare extreme circumstances.. Otherwise I believe that abortion should be legal, it should be safe, it should be available and it should be the woman’s informed choice but most important of all --- it should be rare. In conclusion, we should always keep in mind that there are no more powerful abortifacients in the world than poverty and ignorance.
A beating heart is good indicator that it's living, if its mother is human then it is a living human.
 

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A beating heart is good indicator that it's living, if its mother is human then it is a living human.

I agree that it is human tissue with the potential of eventually becoming a human person. For that reason alone it has great value but not yet the value of the mother who certainly is a human person. We have the proven means at hand to dramatically reduce the incidence of abortion but are not willing to spend the money to do so. In fact some of the methods used, like defunding women's health care through Planned Parenthood, have exactly the opposite effect.
 

Josiah

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Sorry, but I find all this "WHAT SEX AM I?" stuff to be beyond silly and absurd.... and abused by those who have a great need to divine and make some feel disempowered and in need of them.


There are, basically, two sexes. Go into the bathroom, get naked, and it's pretty clear (in 99.99% of cases). Anything else is just.... well.....

NOW, certainly, people can have sexual FEELINGS and desires for the same sex. Okay... different issue. And people may desire to wear the clothes that currently and in our culture is typically common for the other sex. Okay... different issue. And one make choose to ACT like is common in our culture and age for the other sex. Okay... different issue. And I have no problem with parents wanting to not "force" some concept of toys or whatever upon their children (although PERSONALLY, I find this kinda silly) but that has nothing to do with what you saw in the mirror in the bathroom. My wife says there's a difference between sex (those body parts, that "y" and "x" thing.... and BEHAVIORS. She says the first is called "sex" and the second "gender". Maybe.... I always thought those were interchangeable terms. But they are what I'm getting at. One is how God made you. The other is how you feel and behave. Two different issues.



.
 

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All told, the body of evidence supports Lämmchen’s ideas.

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Bluezone777

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I would argue the statement "your body randomly assigned at birth" seems more likely to be used as an argument for transgenderism rather then abortion though I can't say they couldn't use it for both if they wanted to.
 
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