Can the Faith of Parents Save Their Children?

Josiah · Jun 2, 2019

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Can the Faith of Parents Save Their Children?

IMO, no. Faith is the free gift of God given personally and individually, the free gift of God that embraces the mercy and grace and blessings of God. Faith is like the hand that receives the gift. But no, it cannot receive a gift for OTHERS (whether a child or anyone else).

HOWEVER.....

The faith of parents CAN be the reason their child is blessed.

Consider a biblical example. the last of the "Ten Plagues" (Exodus 11 - 12).

Now remember, this would be a KEYSTONE event for the Hebrews and is seen by Christians as also a type of Christ and the Cross....

God's JUDGEMENT (the Law) is that the first born of of people and animals would die.

God's SALVATION (the Gospel) is that there is a way for the faithful to avoid this for their firstborn child (regardless of age)...

The PARENTS are instructed to take a "spotless lamb" (which Christians view as a type of Christ), it is to killed (without bones broken), and the blood placed on the door frames of their house. Christians see all of this as types and as very important!

When God "sees" that the parents believed and did as instructed, THEIR CHILD would be saved, THEIR CHILD would live.

This event - which the Jewish Passover commemorates to this day - is all about God responding to the faith of the PARENTS by saving their CHILD (regardless of age).

Now note, the child need not believe or do anything at all - whether the child be one hour hold or 80 years old - the entire blessing is in response to the faith of the PARENTS, faith that believes and obeys.

Did the faith of the parents save their child? Technically, no. But the faith of the parents was the reason God saved their child.

This event - SO important to both Jews and Christians - is rich and wonderful and very stressed, with several important truths. But this is ONE of them: God can bless children BECAUSE OF THE FAITH OF THE PARENTS.

Agree?

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MennoSota · Jun 2, 2019

Josiah said:
.

Can the Faith of Parents Save Their Children?

IMO, no. Faith is the free gift of God given personally and individually, the free gift of God that embraces the mercy and grace and blessings of God. Faith is like the hand that receives the gift. But no, it cannot receive a gift for OTHERS (whether a child or anyone else).

HOWEVER.....

The faith of parents CAN be the reason their child is blessed.

Consider a biblical example. the last of the "Ten Plagues" (Exodus 11 - 12).

Now remember, this would be a KEYSTONE event for the Hebrews and is seen by Christians as also a type of Christ and the Cross....

God's JUDGEMENT (the Law) is that the first born of of people and animals would die.

God's SALVATION (the Gospel) is that there is a way for the faithful to avoid this for their firstborn child (regardless of age)...

The PARENTS are instructed to take a "spotless lamb" (which Christians view as a type of Christ), it is to killed (without bones broken), and the blood placed on the door frames of their house. Christians see all of this as types and as very important!

When God "sees" that the parents believed and did as instructed, THEIR CHILD would be saved, THEIR CHILD would live.

This event - which the Jewish Passover commemorates to this day - is all about God responding to the faith of the PARENTS by saving their CHILD (regardless of age).

Now note, the child need not believe or do anything at all - whether the child be one hour hold or 80 years old - the entire blessing is in response to the faith of the PARENTS, faith that believes and obeys.

Did the faith of the parents save their child? Technically, no. But the faith of the parents was the reason God saved their child.

This event - SO important to both Jews and Christians - is rich and wonderful and very stressed, with several important truths. But this is ONE of them: God can bless children BECAUSE OF THE FAITH OF THE PARENTS.

Agree?

.

Can we make a legitimate connection to being physically saved by a parents actions and being spiritually saved by a parents actions? I don't think so.
Therefore, I think your attempt to connect the Passover with spiritual salvation is a mighty stretch.
You accurately state that the parents God-given faith cannot save their children. (This is why infant baptism does nothing to save a child) Yet, a faithful parent will be dedicated to raising up a child and training a child to know about the God who gave the parent faith, by grace. God may use that daily witness and the prayers of that parent to graciously grant faith to the child. God may not. God may have other plans. We are not privy to the mind of God, nor do we know his plans.
We offer our children to God. (I did this immediately upon the birth of my children.) We trust them to God to do as He deems wise. We leave them in the hands of God. We obey God in training our children. God, however, is the Sovereign chooser for their souls.

psalms 91 · Jun 2, 2019

MennoSota said:
Can we make a legitimate connection to being physically saved by a parents actions and being spiritually saved by a parents actions? I don't think so.
Therefore, I think your attempt to connect the Passover with spiritual salvation is a mighty stretch.
You accurately state that the parents God-given faith cannot save their children. (This is why infant baptism does nothing to save a child) Yet, a faithful parent will be dedicated to raising up a child and training a child to know about the God who gave the parent faith, by grace. God may use that daily witness and the prayers of that parent to graciously grant faith to the child. God may not. God may have other plans. We are not privy to the mind of God, nor do we know his plans.
We offer our children to God. (I did this immediately upon the birth of my children.) We trust them to God to do as He deems wise. We leave them in the hands of God. We obey God in training our children. God, however, is the Sovereign chooser for their souls.

Not a stretch at all Menno, can you not see the correlation between God leading his people out of Egypt to the promised land with salvation? You should look at the Jewish things closer as there is much to be learned by doing so

Albion · Jun 2, 2019

MennoSota said:
You accurately state that the parents God-given faith cannot save their children. (This is why infant baptism does nothing to save a child)

That line is a good example of a non-sequitur, isn't it?

MennoSota · Jun 2, 2019

psalms 91 said:
Not a stretch at all Menno, can you not see the correlation between God leading his people out of Egypt to the promised land with salvation? You should look at the Jewish things closer as there is much to be learned by doing so

The Passover shows God's physical deliverance of His chosen people. Jesus changed the seder meal and showed how his sacrifice gave spiritual deliverance to His chosen people. This is why disciples of Christ remember Jesus body, given for them and his shed blood that atones for the disciples sins. God is patient with people so that they might believe, but they are held individually accountable. The actions of the body of Christ will not save the children who are dead in their trespasses and sins. Only God, by his faith giving grace, can save them.

MennoSota · Jun 2, 2019

Albion said:
That line is a good example of a non-sequitur, isn't it?

That line is a good example of a teaching that doesn't save anyone.

Albion · Jun 2, 2019

MennoSota said:
That line is a good example of a teaching that doesn't save anyone.

Which teaching is that--faith or baptism?

You started with one of them and ended the thought with the other one.

MennoSota · Jun 2, 2019

Albion said:
Which teaching is that--faith or baptism?

You started with one of them and ended the thought with the other one.

If you are clueless, I cannot help you.

Albion · Jun 2, 2019

MennoSota said:
If you are clueless, I cannot help you.

It appears that you cannot help anyone with an explanation about that confused sentence you wrote in post #2.

Its all right, though. I didn't think you had one anyway. It was just an outside chance.

Arsenios · Jun 2, 2019

Well then, there is this - The Conversion of the Jailer

The Philippian Jailer Converted

Act 16:25-34
And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God:
and the prisoners heard them.
And suddenly there was a great earthquake,
so that the foundations of the prison were shaken:
and immediately all the doors were opened,
and every one's bands were loosed.

And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep,
and seeing the prison doors open,
he drew out his sword,
and would have killed himself,
supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying,
Do thyself no harm:
for we are all here.
Then he called for a light,
and sprang in,
and came trembling,
and fell down before Paul and Silas,
And brought them out, and said,
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

And they said,
"Believe unto the Lord Jesus Christ,
and thou shalt be saved,
and thy house.

And they spake unto him the word of the Lord,
and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night,
and washed their stripes;
and was baptized,
he and all his,
straightway.

And when he had brought them into his house,
he set meat before them,
and rejoiced,
believing in God with all his house.

Now had that jailer simply said:
"Thank you for not escaping -
Please re-confine yourselves
so that you may be turned over
tomorrow morning to the Judge..."
Would his House have been converted and saved?

We can say, you see, that his conversion saved his house, and we can say that he saved his house by his conversion...
And all this is true, in a manner of speaking...
His house in indebted to him for their Salvation...
Households and families are the basis of much that Christ discipled...

We can call this tribalism, and in a certain way it is...
Yet what is a tribe but families and households united...
And that unity is what Christ wants for us in Him...
So that Salvation is a social event as well a private one...

Because God is a UNITY of Three Persons [Hypostases]
And we in Christ are a unity of many persons...
Not in the mere verbal sense of believing the Bible...
But ontologically in reality as members of His Body...

Arsenios

MennoSota · Jun 2, 2019

Albion said:
It appears that you cannot help anyone with an explanation about that confused sentence you wrote in post #2.

Its all right, though. I didn't think you had one anyway. It was just an outside chance.

If you are confused, it is not because of me.

MennoSota · Jun 2, 2019

Arsenios said:
Well then, there is this - The Conversion of the Jailer

The Philippian Jailer Converted

Act 16:25-34
And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God:
and the prisoners heard them.
And suddenly there was a great earthquake,
so that the foundations of the prison were shaken:
and immediately all the doors were opened,
and every one's bands were loosed.

And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep,
and seeing the prison doors open,
he drew out his sword,
and would have killed himself,
supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying,
Do thyself no harm:
for we are all here.
Then he called for a light,
and sprang in,
and came trembling,
and fell down before Paul and Silas,
And brought them out, and said,
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

And they said,
"Believe unto the Lord Jesus Christ,
and thou shalt be saved,
and thy house.

And they spake unto him the word of the Lord,
and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night,
and washed their stripes;
and was baptized,
he and all his,
straightway.

And when he had brought them into his house,
he set meat before them,
and rejoiced,
believing in God with all his house.

Now had that jailer simply said:
"Thank you for not escaping -
Please re-confine yourselves
so that you may be turned over
tomorrow morning to the Judge..."
Would his House have been converted and saved?

We can say, you see, that his conversion saved his house, and we can say that he saved his house by his conversion...
And all this is true, in a manner of speaking...
His house in indebted to him for their Salvation...
Households and families are the basis of much that Christ discipled...

We can call this tribalism, and in a certain way it is...
Yet what is a tribe but families and households united...
And that unity is what Christ wants for us in Him...
So that Salvation is a social event as well a private one...

Because God is a UNITY of Three Persons [Hypostases]
And we in Christ are a unity of many persons...
Not in the mere verbal sense of believing the Bible...
But ontologically in reality as members of His Body...

Arsenios

We can thank God for graciously saving more than just the jailer.

"believing in God with all his house."

Arsenios, salvation is entirely of God.

Albion · Jun 2, 2019

MennoSota said:
If you are confused, it is not because of me.

Come up with something new. This one is making you look bad.

MennoSota · Jun 3, 2019

Albion said:
Come up with something new. This one is making you look bad.

You do this often. You act ignorant and then blame me for your incapacity to understand.

Arsenios · Jun 3, 2019

MennoSota said:
We can thank God for graciously saving more than just the jailer.

"believing in God with all his house."

Arsenios, salvation is entirely of God.

You are preaching to the choir...

The issue is God's ekonomia that he prescribes for His Salvation...

Ananias GAVE Saul the Holy Spirit, yes?
And we both know for a fact that he could not do so, right?
Yet he did so, did he not?

ONLY God CAN give the Holy Spirit Who IS God, right?
Yet God SENT Ananias to FILL Saul with the Holy Spirit, did He not?
So you tell me HOW Ananias FILLED Saul with the Holy Spirit, OK?

And when you have done that, I will tell you with your own words...
How it is that people can save people in Christ...
Even when ONLY God CAN give Salvation...

Arsenios

MennoSota · Jun 3, 2019

Arsenios said:
You are preaching to the choir...

The issue is God's ekonomia that he prescribes for His Salvation...

Ananias GAVE Saul the Holy Spirit, yes?
And we both know for a fact that he could not do so, right?
Yet he did so, did he not?

ONLY God CAN give the Holy Spirit Who IS God, right?
Yet God SENT Ananias to FILL Saul with the Holy Spirit, did He not?
So you tell me HOW Ananias FILLED Saul with the Holy Spirit, OK?

And when you have done that, I will tell you with your own words...
How it is that people can save people in Christ...
Even when ONLY God CAN give Salvation...

Arsenios

The Lord Jesus said "go." That's how Annanias could do what he did.

9:15-17 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

MennoSota · Jun 3, 2019

Arsenios said:
You are preaching to the choir...

The issue is God's ekonomia that he prescribes for His Salvation...

Ananias GAVE Saul the Holy Spirit, yes?
And we both know for a fact that he could not do so, right?
Yet he did so, did he not?

ONLY God CAN give the Holy Spirit Who IS God, right?
Yet God SENT Ananias to FILL Saul with the Holy Spirit, did He not?
So you tell me HOW Ananias FILLED Saul with the Holy Spirit, OK?

And when you have done that, I will tell you with your own words...
How it is that people can save people in Christ...
Even when ONLY God CAN give Salvation...

Arsenios

People cannot save people in Christ. Ananias didn't save anyone. Ananias simply went when God said go. God did the rest.
Either God is telling the truth when he says "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him" (Ephesians 1:4) or God is lying.

Arsenios · Jun 3, 2019

MennoSota said:
The Lord Jesus said "go." That's how Annanias could do what he did.

He said the very same to the Apostles as well...

To disciple all the nations...

Baptizing them...

As Ananias did Saul...

In the very same obedience...

Now granted, Ananias did need divine direction, because Saul had been a lethal enemy of Christ...

And the same happens with Christ's Holy Body, the Ekklesia...

As shown early in Revelation to the 7 Churches...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Jun 3, 2019

MennoSota said:
People cannot save people in Christ.

It is people in Christ who are discipling the nations, Menno...

Ananias didn't save anyone.

Did he give Saul the Holy Spirit?

Ananias simply went when God said go.

Indeed he did...

God did the rest.

God did it all, through Ananias...

And before that, directly so, on the road to Damaskos...

The ekonomia of God's Salvation works through people...

Direct Salvation by God is the exception...

Christ did not come into His creation so that God could save people apart from people...

He came in fallen human flesh that we should do His works...

Discipling the nations, teaching and baptizing...

"As many as have been Baptized into Christ have put on Christ..."

Either
God is telling the truth
when he says "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and blameless before him" (Ephesians 1:4)
or
God is lying.

Paul is telling the truth...

Yet you and I do not know which of us God has chosen...

We know that he has chosen those in Him...

He chose Israel...

Got them out of Egypt...

And because of their sins...

They died in the wilderness...

Never entering the Promised Land...

That is the Type...

We are the anti-Type...

Not all who cry Lord Lord will be saved...

Arsenios

Tigger · Jun 3, 2019

First I'll start with the fact that fundamentalists have a hard time with scripture verses and subjects such as this because the bible wasn't written to, for or by fundamentalist and therefore wasn't ever intended to be understood within that paradigm.

Anyway here are some scriptures that need to be collectively examined in order to glean an understanding of the concept being taught by scripture.

2 Timothy 1:5

I am reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice and, I am persuaded, now lives in you also.

1 Corinthians 7:14

For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

1 Timothy 2:15

But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Acts 16:15

When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. "If you consider me a believer in the Lord," she said, "come and stay at my house." And she persuaded us.

Acts 16:33

At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.

What I see scripture and the teaching of the church historically is that faith by grace is transmitted both by word and sacrament. They are highly effectual particularly to those closest to a believer but can be ultimately rejected by the recipient.

Just my 2 cents.

Can the Faith of Parents Save Their Children?

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