What does Jesus redeem you from?

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Lamb

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If Jesus doesn't redeem you from sin and subsequently eternal hell, then what does He redeem you from?

I've seen members here say Jesus is their Savior and then say that they still don't believe they'll have eternal life. But why do they say that? What exactly do you think Jesus has redeemed you from? Or maybe you don't believe He is your Redeemer???? :whistle:
 

RichWh1

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Jesus redeemed is from the curse of sin
 

Andrew

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Christ delivered me from my foolish ways, I was unfiltered before and looking back I see how embarrassing I was, so glad that I put on the new man!
I struggle sometimes and I admit that, but by bedtime I count my blessings and thank God for another day, we have good days and bad days but we must remain humble and look to the cross and always remember 'forgiveness'!!
 

Lamb

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Christ delivered me from my foolish ways, I was unfiltered before and looking back I see how embarrassing I was, so glad that I put on the new man!
I struggle sometimes and I admit that, but by bedtime I count my blessings and thank God for another day, we have good days and bad days but we must remain humble and look to the cross and always remember 'forgiveness'!!

So you agree that He redeems you from sin...you past, present and future sins. We will still continue to sin because we live in sinful bodies...but we are Redeemed because Christ atoned for our sins at the cross.
 

Andrew

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So you agree that He redeems you from sin...you past, present and future sins. We will still continue to sin because we live in sinful bodies...but we are Redeemed because Christ atoned for our sins at the cross.
Totally!
I couldn't believe it any other way, without forgiveness of sins we are forever in debt, without Christ's atonement it is impossible to be forgiven.
The Law was given to sinners, the Jews still "struggle with God" to this day because they are sinners, they need forgiveness and that is only achieved through belief in Christ as their savior, God speed, Christ came for the sick not the "righteous"
 

Lamb

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Totally!
I couldn't believe it any other way, without forgiveness of sins we are forever in debt, without Christ's atonement it is impossible to be forgiven.
The Law was given to sinners, the Jews still "struggle with God" to this day because they are sinners, they need forgiveness and that is only achieved through belief in Christ as their savior, God speed, Christ came for the sick not the "righteous"

Not only the Jews still struggle but so do many others who reject Jesus as their Savior and strive to work their way to eternal life. But ONLY Jesus is the Redeemer...not ourselves :)
 

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Amen. Jesus is indeed our Redeemer!

And what we DO with that Redemption we receive will determine our Eternal destiny. :)
 

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Amen. Jesus is indeed our Redeemer!

And what we DO with that Redemption we receive will determine our Eternal destiny. :)

If HE is your Redeemer....then you have redemption. You can't earn what He already is for you...the Redeemer. Your works will not gain you redemption if HE is your Redeemer.

You didn't answer the question...WHAT does Jesus redeem you from?
 

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Our Lord Jesus Christ has redeemed me from the curses of the flesh, the world and the Devil, which constantly tempt me to sin. Sin is a fact of life and while I am a sinner indeed, He has granted me forgiveness through His atoning death on the Cross.
 

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If HE is your Redeemer....then you have redemption. You can't earn what He already is for you...the Redeemer. Your works will not gain you redemption if HE is your Redeemer.

You didn't answer the question...WHAT does Jesus redeem you from?

One of the biggest misunderstandings in modern theology is difference between 'corporate' and 'individual' "redemption", as well as "salvation." That is why the Lord lead me to spend so much time studying and teaching from 1Cor 10. For here the Spirit, through Paul, helps us to see that the "salvation" and the promises made to 'corporate' Israel, still had to be worked out in the 'individual' Israelite, if they were to benefit from them. And the same is True for us. Jesus has redeemed mankind from bondage to sin; now it must be worked out in the individual. We many have been "saved", but will we, in the Word of Jesus, "endure til the end" that we might be "saved."? I have chosen to believe and accept what Jesus said several times; that we must "endure til the end" to be "saved" , meaning that, although we have been set free from having to serve sin, we now actually have to stop serving sin if we are to enter into the promises of God. So many seem to struggle with that today. Again, we must believe ALL that Jesus taught.


As well, I responded to you in the other thread as follows -

It appears you may be confusing "redemption" with being "saved." These are closely related, but are not synonymous. We can look at that perhaps later.

But first... Did you know that neither Paul or John in any of their writings ever mention the word "hell"? Not even a single time. If one of the main reasons Jesus had come was to save us from "hell" we'd suppose that both Paul and John would have mentioned it quite often, but they did not. Ever. The word doesn't appear a single time in the Book of Acts either. Truthfully, despite modern popular theology, that message is not part of the Gospel. Jesus mentioned it a couple times, but never something that we are to fear. God is the only One we are to fear.

Now indeed, Jesus came to ultimately redeem us from sin; and He gives us the opportunity to be made new. And begins just as it began with Israel being "saved" from Egypt, by the Blood of Lamb and removing of "leaven" from our lives (which symbolizes Repentance). He is bringing the fullness of Redemption to those who have been "saved" who have truly meet the conditions, i.e. "Repented" (turned from sin), "denied themselves, picked up their cross daily and followed Him", "presented their body a living sacrifice", "resisted sin even to the shedding of their blood", "walked worthy" and "overcame", that they not, was Paul as concerned, "be disqualified." If the Apostle Paul knew that his salvation didn't guarantee him the promises of God, then how can we possibly think we have a greater assurance than the Apostles? (see 1Cor 10:1-12, Jude 1:5, Matt 4:17, Luke 13:1-5, Luke 9:23, Rom 12:1, Heb 12:4, Matt 10:37-38, Eph 4:1, Phil 1:27, Col 1:10, 1Thess 2:12, 2Thess 1:5, 2Thess 1:11, Rev 2:1-29, Rev 3:1-22, 1Cor 9:24-27 in particular from the whole of Scripture.)

Again, this Truth is for God's Elect; those who will come forth in the Day as the "co-heirs" of Christ, His counterpart, the "wife of the Lamb." These will be the ones who will "sit with Christ Jesus on His Throne" and bring redemption to the bulk of mankind at the Second Resurrection, who even now are "groaning for the revealing of the sons of God." (see Rom 8:17, 1John 3:1-3, Rev 19:7, Rev 22:17, Matt 25:31-46, Rev 3:21, Rom 8:19, John 17:20-26, and Ob 1:21)

This is the Good News for which creation is waiting! Hallelujah! I want to be a part of bringing God's great plan & purpose for Creation to fruition.

I got to tell you, friend... although you & some others disagree with most of what I teach from God's Word, I do appreciate the interaction! For truly, as I dig into the Scripture seeking the Truth of God that I might respond to rebuttals, every time my understanding is increased, what I believe and preach is further confirmed, and my hope & trust in the Lord Jesus is strengthened! Praise His Name!!

Peace & Blessings to all who "hunger & thirst for righteousness."
 

Lamb

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Jesus has redeemed mankind from bondage to sin;


Now indeed, Jesus came to ultimately redeem us from sin;

I've selected the above statements from your post for a purpose. If you believe these to be true then you needn't fear Jesus' return since you are redeemed. But you have stated on here many times that you don't feel you will be redeemed by God for eternal life and that's a huge problem. Either Jesus has redeemed you or He hasn't. Which is it?
 

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I've selected the above statements from your post for a purpose. If you believe these to be true then you needn't fear Jesus' return since you are redeemed. But you have stated on here many times that you don't feel you will be redeemed by God for eternal life and that's a huge problem. Either Jesus has redeemed you or He hasn't. Which is it?

Hmmm... Interesting... Don't recall ever saying I don't feel I will be redeemed by God for eternal Life. Perhaps you are thinking of another?

No huge problem for me... as long as I continue striving to obey the Lord and meet His conditions upon God's call for my life. But thanks for your concern! :)

The real problem I see is that so many in the churches today who believe they will be ready when the Lord returns, will not be. But as the Scripture warns this will take place then I leave it in His hands.

My call is to preach His Truth to those who will hear. And so I do! :preach: :bible:
 

Lamb

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Hmmm... Interesting... Don't recall ever saying I don't feel I will be redeemed by God for eternal Life. Perhaps you are thinking of another?

No huge problem for me... as long as I continue striving to obey the Lord and meet His conditions upon God's call for my life. But thanks for your concern! :)

The real problem I see is that so many in the churches today who believe they will be ready when the Lord returns, will not be. But as the Scripture warns this will take place then I leave it in His hands.

My call is to preach His Truth to those who will hear. And so I do! :preach: :bible:

Oh? Then you agree that you are redeemed because of what Jesus has done extra nos (outside of ourselves)?
 

Michael

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Oh? Then you agree that you are redeemed because of what Jesus has done extra nos (outside of ourselves)?

If you can grasp the Truth that Adolf Hitler was "redeemed" in one sense, yet will definitely not be raised in the First Resurrection, and most likely will be among the few barred from entering the Kingdom when he stands before Christ (Head & Body) and is judged at the Second Resurrection (i.e. Sheep & Goat Judgment), then perhaps you will begin to understand what it is that Jesus and the Apostles taught, and that the Lord has given me to teach as well.

Honestly, it's hard to set aside what the Spirit has led me (and many others) into, concerning the mysteries of the Kingdom; and have conversations about the elementary principles of Christ. Once Jesus has "opened your mind to comprehend the Scriptures" it is impossible to go back to anything less. I'm being serious here. Much of the Truth of God's plan and purpose was revealed to me by His Spirit when He led me to spend much time in, and teach extensively, on Romans chapter 8 and 1Corinthians 10. As one who teaches the Bible in churches, I take that commission very seriously. Should I choose to compromise the Gospel and preach something lesser in attempt to appease church-goers I would be risking the inheritance the Lord God has destined for me. I'm truly beginning to understand Paul's concern about his own destiny -

"Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified." - 1Cor 9:24-27

Remember, Jesus cannot overcome for us; He cannot run our race for us; He does not bear our cross. These we must do. Jesus bore His own Cross, ran His race well, and overcame. God has given to us as well what we need to succeed. Question is... will we? Will we enter into the fullness of Redemption, or having been "saved" will we "be destroyed"?
 

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Andrew

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If you can grasp the Truth that Adolf Hitler was "redeemed" in one sense, yet will definitely not be raised in the First Resurrection, and most likely will be among the few barred from entering the Kingdom when he stands before Christ (Head & Body) and is judged at the Second Resurrection (i.e. Sheep & Goat Judgment), then perhaps you will begin to understand what it is that Jesus and the Apostles taught, and that the Lord has given me to teach as well.

Honestly, it's hard to set aside what the Spirit has led me (and many others) into, concerning the mysteries of the Kingdom; and have conversations about the elementary principles of Christ. Once Jesus has "opened your mind to comprehend the Scriptures" it is impossible to go back to anything less. I'm being serious here. Much of the Truth of God's plan and purpose was revealed to me by His Spirit when He led me to spend much time in, and teach extensively, on Romans chapter 8 and 1Corinthians 10. As one who teaches the Bible in churches, I take that commission very seriously. Should I choose to compromise the Gospel and preach something lesser in attempt to appease church-goers I would be risking the inheritance the Lord God has destined for me. I'm truly beginning to understand Paul's concern about his own destiny -

"Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified." - 1Cor 9:24-27

Remember, Jesus cannot overcome for us; He cannot run our race for us; He does not bear our cross. These we must do. Jesus bore His own Cross, ran His race well, and overcame. God has given to us as well what we need to succeed. Question is... will we? Will we enter into the fullness of Redemption, or having been "saved" will we "be destroyed"?
Hitler was no Christian, I can tell by his fruits ;)

"Jesus bore his own cross" is an odd statement, I thought He did his Fathers will and not of himself alone, and not only that but he did it for the sake of his Fathers Kingdom and for the ransom of many..
We can't atone for ourselves, to take up the cross as a Christian means to remain humble in humiliation by keeping the Faith in Christ crucified and being Gods workmanship as citizens of His kingdom.
Charity is works given to us through the Spirit that cannot be rated of ourselves or by other men but only by God who obviously approves of His works in us ;) ...Michael you are well prepared for the Kingdom as are all the brethren in Christ, the only thing that can bring down your faith is your own disbelief in that you ARE worthy to come to Him in full humility and humbleness as an imperfect and wretched mortal man and ARE hereby absolved of all sins and sins to come by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Sometimes doing less is gain in Gods eyes, I may not be a deacon in a church or a pillar of the community but I'm no longer an enemy to my neighbors nor an instrument of the devil.. I've been delivered and set free from my old ways and have gained citizenship in the Kingdom and fellowship in the Lord
 

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Remember, Jesus cannot overcome for us; He cannot run our race for us; He does not bear our cross. These we must do. Jesus bore His own Cross, ran His race well, and overcame. God has given to us as well what we need to succeed. Question is... will we? Will we enter into the fullness of Redemption, or having been "saved" will we "be destroyed"?

In other words, Jesus does nothing for your redemption since you have to do it all yourself alone?

You say one thing "Jesus is Redeemer" and then take it away "These we must do" when you insist you can earn redemption. Go back and study more, Michael.
 

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In other words, Jesus does nothing for your redemption since you have to do it all yourself alone?

You say one thing "Jesus is Redeemer" and then take it away "These we must do" when you insist you can earn redemption. Go back and study more, Michael.


As one who has been teaching the Bible for many years now, that did bring me a chuckles this morning! :disgonbegood:

Now, I by no means claim to know it all, not by any stretch; but in this area of our Journey and destiny in the Kingdom, the Lord has revealed great insight and Truth concerning the Elect and the charge to those who will obtain the promises of Revelation 2 & 3. It has all been there in the Scripture, since the Spirit led the Apostles to pen the letters that comprise what we now call the New Testament. I personally add nothing to what has already been written. But again, unless the Lord opens our eyes to the Truth, or even a portion of it, we cannot see it. Once He does though, there is no going back! For me to deny even a word of what I have shared in the various threads here, or on my website, or in the hundreds of times I've taught in church, would be to deny the Lord Christ, and that I cannot do!

The hours I spend in the Word daily I find is sadly more than most church-goers. In the Scripture, while seeking the mind of the Lord, is where I get my strength and hope. Here God unveils His great plan and purpose increasingly with every passage I meditate on. Even the handful of verses often thrown at me in attempt to refute the doctrine I teach only continually affirms the Truth I have come to embrace. :)

Again, I thank you for your concern regarding my "salvation", but I am confident that I have been "saved"; and, as Paul, from whom I glean much, I now strive to be pleasing to my Savior and Lord and attain to all that God has called me to, that I "might somehow attain unto the resurrection out from among the dead" . and receive the fullness of God's promise to the Elect. And I know there are others who understand of what I speak. My prayer is that these will have strength to walk that path and boldness to proclaim the Truth as the Lord leads.

May you as well find and receive His calling upon your life, and walk faithfully in it.
Peace & blessings.
 

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[MENTION=1032]Michael[/MENTION]


Remember, Jesus cannot overcome for us


I strongly disagree. I do not view Jesus as impotent to save. I believe that He IS the Savior, and thus He saves us. The impotence in on our side (thus the need to be saved) NOT on Jesus' side.




.
 
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.


The LAW:

What is the Law?


The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.


Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."

There are at least 613 laws specifically written just in the Old Testament. We think often of the Ten Commandments but actually there are many, many more just in the OT- and still more in the NT.




What does the Law mandate?

Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."




The word "sin" literally means "to miss the mark." In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, the therefore "sinned" because he missed the mark, missed the target. The Bible says "ALL fall short." IF you have absolutely, perfectly, divinely, 24/7 "hit" all the targets above, then you are obedient and free of sin. Otherwise...... Well, the Bible would be correct and not lying when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is good." "If you claim to have no sin (you hit the mark), then you lie and call God a liar."


The LAW has two functions:


Civil - Our relationships in this fallen world. This was not given until around 1400 BC when the first Law was given to Moses on Mount Sinai, with a purpose of GUIDING peoples' relationships. This is very much like our own national laws - they govern relationships. Civil law does not get us into heaven, it helps us get along with others, it helps our society work better.... if everyone kept the law, this would be a nicer place in which to live and die (and eventually go to hell). This applies just as much to non-Christians as to Christians - it applies to all.

The Law cannot save - and in this first use, it's not remotely its intention. Now.... true..... IF we kept all the law, we'd go to heaven because we would not NEED God or Christ or mercy or forgiveness or salvation or justification or the Cross or the Blood - we'd not need the Gospel - because we'd essentially be God: divinely perfect, divinely holy, divinely loving..... totally, absolutely..... 100%....... 24/7...... but then in that case, we'd not need the civil law because we'd be perfect - in nature, in being, in attitude, in thought, in word, in deed. But no one (except Jesus) is perfect, "all fall short."

We can NEVER achieve the Law (and we don't). Like Paul, we must confess that we are "CHIEF OF SINNERS" and that we are not - not - perfect as God demands.... but we CAN press on toward that. Why? Because Jesus was a joke and Christianity is wrong - we gotta save ourselves? WE save SELF via the Law - by being absolutely 100% perfect just as God is perfect? Nope. We press on toward that because our life and our world would be a whole lot better off. And because it pleases God whom we love.



Theological - Our relationship to God. This is to drive us to our knees, to drive us to despair, to accuse us, to drive us to God's MERCY, God's HEART, God's FORGIVENESS..... to reveal the need for a Savior, a Cross. We CANNOT and ARE NOT what God intends and commands. That NO ONE is righteous..... NO ONE is good..... every other religion on the planet is fundamentally wrong because we cannot clean up our act and become what God mandates: absolutely perfect, absolutely holy, absolutely loving.... if anyone CLAIMS to be without sin (to always hit the mark), well.... to be blunt..... they LIE and DECEIVE themselves (but no one else - least of all God!). We are SINNERS! We MISS THE MARK! We are FALLEN! We need SALVATION, MERCY, JUSTIFICATION... IF we look to the LAW as the tool of salvation, ALL that happens is that we get slapped down - completely, totally, every time. (Note: THIS is why people want to water down the law SO MUCH as to make it unrecognizable, insulting God and the Law - all to make it so that we can boast "but I keep the Law - I don't need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Blood, no mercy - I got ME!!!" All as an enemy of Christ, a destroyer of the Gospel, all in an attempt to substitute the theology of Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism in place of Christianity - to promote THEIR soteriology which is "Self saves self although because of the TIME and HELP which God provides")

The theological use is to ask ourselves, "Am I all that God commands?" The only reasonable answer is: "NO!" And thus to flee to the mercy seat of God, the heart of God..... He who says "Yes" the Bible specifically says is a "fool" and is a "liar"

BOTH of these functions continue after justification..... we are STILL called to be absolutely, divinely PERFECT, we are still called to live civilly in society; indeed Christians have unique commands: to love EXACTLY as Christ did, to LIVE exactly as Christ did, to make disciples of all 7.3 billion people, etc. The Law doesn't disappear or get watered down to nothing (as some Christians insist) when we are justified... but it also has nothing to do with our justification just because we are justified.





The GOSPEL


What is the Gospel?


It is the heart of God, the mercy of God, what God has done FOR us, the gifts from God, the promises of God - all in view of CHRIST alone: the Cross, the Blood, the Empty Tomb.


Galatians 2:21, "If justification were through the Law then Christ died for no purpose."

Philippians 3:9, "Not because of our works, lest anyone can boast."

Romans 3:20, "No human being will be justified in God's sight by works of the Law."

First John 4:10, "Not that we love God but rather that He loves us."

First John 4:8, "God is love."

John 3:16, "For God so (unconditionally) love the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life."

Romans 5:8, "God shows His love for us in that while we were enemies of God, Christ died for us."

First John 2:2, "Christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins."

Titus 3:5, "God saves us not because of our deeds of righteousness but rather in view of His own mercy."

Romans 6:23, "The free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus."

Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing but rather it is the free gift of God."

John 3:36, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life."



This Gospel also applies to our lives as Christians....

Hebrews 13:5, "I will never leave you or forsake you."

First John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, God is faithful to His promise and will forgive our sins."

.... and so VERY much more.... all entirely because of the heart of God, the unconditional love of God, the mercy of God.... in view of the Lamb, the Blood, the Cross, the Christ, the Savior.




The Law does not negate or cancel or diminish the Gospel.... nor does the Gospel negate, cancel or diminish the Law... both are real, both are true, both stand in ALL their force and truth... and they can only accomplish their task if we allow them to stand FULLY - not watering them down, not confusing them, not entangling them, not misapplying them. A Christian (one who is justified, narrow - by Christ ALONE, by the SAVIOR, via the Cross, because of the Gospel!) is still called to absolute, total, divine perfection, holiness, obedience, love... still called to always, perfectly HIT THE MARK, right on, every time, 24/7, as much as God does, in our nature, our being, our attitude, our thoughts, our words, our deeds: both for civil reasons AND so that we realize we fail and need Gods' mercy. We strive forward because we love God and because this is the will of God..... but we never fully attain it, we miss the mark, we fall short more often and more greatly than we realize. And so, thanks be to God, the Gospel remains (FULLY, completely, in all its' power and force and beauty): God is merciful, God forgives, because of the Lamb, because of the Cross, because of the Blood, because of His unconditional love, because of His Son, because there is the SAVIOR - Jesus Christ.

Philippians 3:12-14, "Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus." Paul is NOT obedient, he is the "Chief of sinners!" Paul is not looking to the Law for justification but for his life as one who is justified. And he "presses on" (accepting the call of the Law to PERFECTION) not so that He might be saved.... not so that God will love him.... not so that he will become God's own.... but because he IS loved, IS God's own - this has to do with the life of the justified, not the cause of justification.



Pax Christi



- Josiah



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