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    Christian Theology - Thread: Absent fruits signal the absence of faith

    1. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      The Law is holy and good and is used as a curb, guide and mirror. It won't save you though because you can't be perfectly obedient as God requires for holiness which is why when Jesus died on the cross we have been reconciled to Him and declared righteous. It's that Gospel that brings life. The Law is like a hammer that comes down hard on us to show us our sin. The Gospel gives us life and causes us to bear fruit because a new creation will grow according to the will of God.
      I don't recall the Torah(law) described as a hammer in The Holy scriptures.
      Rather I heard David speak in the spirit that The Torah was a lamp to his feet. Which reminds me of the good soil where a fruitful tree is nourished in promises.

      Blessings Always
      Last edited by pinacled; 12-01-2019 at 06:13 PM.

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    3. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
      I don't recall the Torah(law) described as a hammer in The Holy scriptures.
      Rather I heard David speak in the spirit that The Torah was a lamp to his feet. Which reminds me of the good soil where a fruitful tree is nourished in promises.

      Blessings Always
      Jeremiah 23:29 Is not My word like fire, declares the LORD, and like a hammer that smashes a rock?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus


      1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

    4. #13
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      Brothers, my heart’s deepest desire and my prayer to God for Isra’el is for their salvation; 2 for I can testify to their zeal for God. But it is not based on correct understanding; 3 for, since they are unaware of God’s way of making people righteous and instead seek to set up their own, they have not submitted themselves to God’s way of making people righteous. 4 For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts. 5 For Moshe writes about the righteousness grounded in the Torah that the person who does these things will attain life through them.[a] 6 Moreover, the righteousness grounded in trusting says:

      “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend to heaven?’” —

      that is, to bring the Messiah down — 7 or,

      “‘Who will descend into Sh’ol?’” —

      that is, to bring the Messiah up from the dead. 8 What, then, does it say?

      “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart.”[b] —

      that is, the word about trust which we proclaim, namely, 9 that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered. 10 For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance. 11 For the passage quoted says that everyone who rests his trust on him will not be humiliated.[c] 12 That means that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile — Adonai is the same for everyone, rich toward everyone who calls on him, 13 since everyone who calls on the name of Adonai will be delivered.[d]

      14 But how can they call on someone if they haven’t trusted in him? And how can they trust in someone if they haven’t heard about him? And how can they hear about someone if no one is proclaiming him? 15 And how can people proclaim him unless God sends them? —

      as the Tanakh puts it,
      “How beautiful are the feet of those announcing good news about good things!”[ie]{The Torah as lamp to ones feet}

      16 The problem is that they haven’t all paid attention to the Good News and obeyed it. For Yesha‘yahu says,

      “Adonai, who has trusted what he has heard from us?”[f]

      17 So trust comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through a word proclaimed about the Messiah.

      18 “But, I say, isn’t it rather that they didn’t hear?” No, they did hear —

      “Their voice has gone out throughout the whole world
      and their words to the ends of the earth.”[g]

      19 “But, I say, isn’t it rather that Isra’el didn’t understand?”

      “I will provoke you to jealousy over a non-nation,
      over a nation void of understanding I will make you angry.”[h]

      20 Moreover, Yesha‘yahu boldly says,

      “I was found by those who were not looking for me,
      I became known to those who did not ask for me”;[i]

      21 but to Isra’el he says,

      “All day long I held out my hands
      to a people who kept disobeying and contradicting.”
      Last edited by pinacled; 12-01-2019 at 08:18 PM.

    5. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
      Brothers, my heart’s deepest desire and my prayer to God for Isra’el is for their salvation; 2 for I can testify to their zeal for God. But it is not based on correct understanding; 3 for, since they are unaware of God’s way of making people righteous and instead seek to set up their own, they have not submitted themselves to God’s way of making people righteous. 4 For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts. 5 For Moshe writes about the righteousness grounded in the Torah that the person who does these things will attain life through them.[a] 6 Moreover, the righteousness grounded in trusting says:

      “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend to heaven?’” —

      that is, to bring the Messiah down — 7 or,

      “‘Who will descend into Sh’ol?’” —

      that is, to bring the Messiah up from the dead. 8 What, then, does it say?

      “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart.”[b] —

      that is, the word about trust which we proclaim, namely, 9 that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered. 10 For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance. 11 For the passage quoted says that everyone who rests his trust on him will not be humiliated.[c] 12 That means that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile — Adonai is the same for everyone, rich toward everyone who calls on him, 13 since everyone who calls on the name of Adonai will be delivered.[d]

      14 But how can they call on someone if they haven’t trusted in him? And how can they trust in someone if they haven’t heard about him? And how can they hear about someone if no one is proclaiming him? 15 And how can people proclaim him unless God sends them? — as the Tanakh puts it, “How beautiful are the feet of those announcing good news about good things!”[e]

      16 The problem is that they haven’t all paid attention to the Good News and obeyed it. For Yesha‘yahu says,

      “Adonai, who has trusted what he has heard from us?”[f]

      17 So trust comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through a word proclaimed about the Messiah.

      18 “But, I say, isn’t it rather that they didn’t hear?” No, they did hear —

      “Their voice has gone out throughout the whole world
      and their words to the ends of the earth.”[g]

      19 “But, I say, isn’t it rather that Isra’el didn’t understand?”

      “I will provoke you to jealousy over a non-nation,
      over a nation void of understanding I will make you angry.”[h]

      20 Moreover, Yesha‘yahu boldly says,

      “I was found by those who were not looking for me,
      I became known to those who did not ask for me”;[i]

      21 but to Isra’el he says,

      “All day long I held out my hands
      to a people who kept disobeying and contradicting.”
      Torah as a lamp to those with ears, eyes, hands, and feet.

      Blessed be The Holy One who washes his with The Word.

    6. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Jeremiah 23:29 Is not My word like fire, declares the LORD, and like a hammer that smashes a rock?
      Shatters hearts of stone with a letter/certificate of divorce.
      And whose heart was shattered with a crushing sea after pursuing the children of Yisrayl(Israel.

      Hammer is a translation/ transliteration for weight.

      Like a millstone hung over those who are cast into the sea for......?
      Answer; hardness of heart.
      And those who married into Egypt were punished.
      Yet the lineage yhdh(Judah) survived just as the Lord promised.
      The very same lineage our Lord Yeshua(Jesus) was born of in his mother's line of inheritance.

      Blessed be The Holy One
      Last edited by pinacled; 12-01-2019 at 08:42 PM.

    7. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
      Shatters hearts of stone with a letter/certificate of divorce.
      And whose heart was shattered with a crushing sea after pursuing the children of Yisrayl(Israel.

      Hammer is a translation/ transliteration for weight.

      Like a millstone hung over those who are cast into the sea for......?
      Answer; hardness of heart.
      And those who married into Egypt were punished.
      Yet the lineage yhdh(Judah) survived just as the Lord promised.
      The very same lineage our Lord Yeshua(Jesus) was born of in his mother's line of inheritance.

      Blessed be The Holy One
      The Law won't save us because it puts a burden on us. It's the Gospel, the good news that the Messiah died for the forgiveness of our sins that relieves us of that burden and gives us peace. That's what creates new life in us and we bear fruit.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus


      1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

    8. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      The Law won't save us because it puts a burden on us. It's the Gospel, the good news that the Messiah died for the forgiveness of our sins that relieves us of that burden and gives us peace. That's what creates new life in us and we bear fruit.
      Supposing which burden you carry sis.
      Do you carry a burden of the cross of inheritance alongside Yeshua ..

      Or do you carry the burden of the Torah(law) of sin and death.

      The Torah in spirit speaks volumes when you look with eyes of the heart.
      Where ole sh'aul once looked into the mirror on a certain yom(day) and saw darkly.
      I saw Light hovering over the deep .

      Blessings Always

    9. #18
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
      Supposing which burden you carry sis.
      Do you carry a burden of the cross of inheritance alongside Yeshua ..

      Or do you carry the burden of the Torah(law) of sin and death.

      The Torah in spirit speaks volumes when you look with eyes of the heart.
      Where ole sh'aul once looked into the mirror on a certain yom(day) and saw darkly.
      I saw Light hovering over the deep .

      Blessings Always
      The burden of the Law bears down on us daily because we still live in these sinful bodies. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

      Thanks be to God we are redeemed by the Christ who died for us.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus


      1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

    10. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      The burden of the Law bears down on us daily because we still live in these sinful bodies. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

      Thanks be to God we are redeemed by the Christ who died for us.
      In as much as a son or daughter is sealed. Fruits will be shown in the spirit.

      With such a free gift of treasures. Where they store such is important.

      Being that the promise of inheritance has been freely offered with Change of priestly order. All sons and daughters are welcome to the Holy place in The Name of The Holy One.

      Blessings Always

    11. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      The burden of the Law bears down on us daily because we still live in these sinful bodies. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

      Thanks be to God we are redeemed by the Christ who died for us.
      Our flesh no longer bears record.
      The spirit of Torah is what does.
      Love, Joy and more fulfills the Torah in spirit.

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