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    Christian Theology - Thread: Absent fruits signal the absence of faith

    1. #1
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Absent fruits signal the absence of faith

      Absent fruits signal the absence of faith.

      We've all heard it countless times on CH that fruits are a sign of faith. And that's true! But every time a thread on Justification or forgiveness comes up someone is bound to say "...but what about good works and fruit?

      Good works and bearing fruit comes from the Gospel and that is the good news that Jesus died for the forgiveness of your sins. It's the Holy Spirit who takes that person who is justified in Christ (see this thread https://christianityhaven.com/showth...es-not-justify) and sanctifies him, guiding him to do the works and bear fruits He has planned.

      We know the Law is mirror, curb and guide and although the Law tells us what to do and not do it cannot give life.

      Navel gazing to see if we're doing enough good works is not the answer. For one, your good works won't justify you...Jesus did that. Your good works are necessary because God wants you to do them. They will be judged on Judgment Day but remember, Jesus justified you so fear not, you have eternal life not based on your works but on Jesus.

      Since the Law cannot give you life it must be the Gospel. When a Pastor laments about his flock and wonders if they're doing the good works that the Holy Spirit wants them to do, he should be intent on knowing that even though the Law should still be preached, the Gospel is what will actually continue to give them life and change their inner nature.

      Absent fruit? Absent faith. More faith...you're bound do bear more fruit because a bird flies, a fish swims and a believer bears fruit.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus


      1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

    2. #2
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      More faith comes by reading the Word, experiencing life and learning, many ways. God gives us a measure of faith and then expects us to grow it, The Word is pretty clear on this
      Isaiah 40:31

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      It seems there is one fruit, the fruit of the Spirit. There are many "flavors" to this fruit, Paul describes.

      But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
      ~ Galatians 5:22-23

      God may gift us the gift of faith when he graciously saves us. But sin may empty the believer of the fruit of the Spirit.
      Paul goes on to show us what life looks like when the fruit of the Spirit is evidenced.

      And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
      ~ Galatians 5:24-26

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      faith in God makes a person want to act for God and demonstrate their love for God. So faith is demonstrated through actions.

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      My point in the OP was that we know that our faith will produce good fruit and yet a lot of people might say in order to produce more fruit we need to hear more law (do this and don't do that). My point though was that since it's because of faith that we produce that don't need to hear more law but more gospel (Jesus died for the forgiveness of your sins) since that's what faith trusts in.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus


      1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      My point in the OP was that we know that our faith will produce good fruit and yet a lot of people might say in order to produce more fruit we need to hear more law (do this and don't do that). My point though was that since it's because of faith that we produce that don't need to hear more law but more gospel (Jesus died for the forgiveness of your sins) since that's what faith trusts in.
      Have you ever considered The Torah(law) to be a pruning instrument of The Lords hand in order' of increasing Fruits of the Tree that is life?

      Though a tree is known by its timber and fruits. Rarely it is known by its petals.

      Blessings Always

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      Quote Originally Posted by psalms 91 View Post
      More faith comes by reading the Word, experiencing life and learning, many ways. God gives us a measure of faith and then expects us to grow it, The Word is pretty clear on this
      Amen,

      With the armored helmet of Salvation the faithful are renewed in their mind with a washing of The Word.

      Blessed be The Holy One

    12. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
      Have you ever considered The Torah(law) to be a pruning instrument of The Lords hand in order' of increasing Fruits of the Tree that is life?

      Though a tree is known by its timber and fruits. Rarely it is known by its petals.

      Blessings Always
      The Law kills. 2 Corinthians 3:6 The Gospel gives life. 2 Corinthians 5:17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus


      1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      The Law kills. 2 Corinthians 3:6 The Gospel gives life. 2 Corinthians 5:17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come
      While you have cited a letter written to a certain congregation. I'm not sure what you are communicating.
      I recall the letter is what kills.
      The Torah( law) is said to be holy by ole sh'aul.
      And that all scripture is for correction and training in righteousness.
      John 15:2
      Something to consider about pruning is our Lord Yeshua own Word concerning trees and limbs that do not bare fruit.
      I was thinking pruning(removal)would concern only limbs that lacked in fruit while the whole tree is left untouched or manacured where fruits are found.

      Blessings Always
      Last edited by pinacled; 12-01-2019 at 03:57 PM.

    14. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
      While you have cited a letter written to a certain congregation. I'm not sure what you are communicating.
      I recall the letter is what kills.
      The Torah( law) is said to be holy by ole sh'aul.
      And that all scripture is for correction and training in righteousness.
      John 15:2
      Something to consider about pruning is our Lord Yeshua own Word concerning trees and limbs that do not bare fruit.
      I was thinking pruning(removal)would concern only limbs that lacked in fruit while the whole tree is left untouched or manacured where fruits are found.

      Blessings Always
      The Law is holy and good and is used as a curb, guide and mirror. It won't save you though because you can't be perfectly obedient as God requires for holiness which is why when Jesus died on the cross we have been reconciled to Him and declared righteous. It's that Gospel that brings life. The Law is like a hammer that comes down hard on us to show us our sin. The Gospel gives us life and causes us to bear fruit because a new creation will grow according to the will of God.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus


      1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

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