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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: ROMANS 9:4 PROMISES TO ISRAEL ALONE

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      ROMANS 9:4 PROMISES TO ISRAEL ALONE

      Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

      9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

      Promises were given to Israel that were not given to the church, the body of Christ; neither was the church, the body, instructed to claim them.

      Genesis 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

      22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

      God made promise to Abraham and his seed to multiply and bless them; in the seed of Abraham all the nations of the earth will be blessed.

      Deuteronomy 1:10 The LORD your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.

      1:11 (The LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!)

      Israel was multiplied as the stars in number as promised.

      Deuteronomy 15:6 For the LORD thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee.

      Israel was promised to reign over many nations.

      Deuteronomy 26:18 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments;

      The LORD affirmed that Israel to be his peculiar people as promised (Exodus 19:5 Psalm 135:4 1 Peter 2:9).

      Genesis 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

      13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

      13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

      The LORD gave promise to Abram (Abraham) and his seed to be given all the seen land.

      Deuteronomy27:2 And it shall be on the day when ye shall pass over Jordan unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, that thou shalt set thee up great stones, and plaster them with plaster:

      27:3 And thou shalt write upon them all the words of this law, when thou art passed over, that thou mayest go in unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, a land that floweth with milk and honey; as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee.

      The promise of the land was once again repeated by the LORD when he gave commandment to Israel about crossing the Jordan.

      1 Kings 9:5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.

      In speaking to Solomon, God said he would establish the throne of Solomon's kingdom forever as promised David.

      2 Samuel 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

      David's throne and his kingdom would be established forever; this is the promised Davidic kingdom on earth.

      Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

      Jesus was preaching the gospel of the kingdom which was the glad tidings of the coming of the promised Davidic kingdom on earth. The disciples certainly expected this kingdom when they asked Jesus if the kingdom would be restored at that time (Acts 1:6).

      In Deuteronomy 15:6 Israel was promised to reign over many nations; this will be fulfilled in the Davidic kingdom (Revelation 5:10 Revelation 20:4-6 Revelation 22:5).

      Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

      The Lord Jesus Christ confirmed the promises to Israel; if Israel had received Jesus as Messiah, the Son of God, and responded to the gospel of the kingdom, the Davidic kingdom would have come unto them.

      Jesus will yet come and establish the kingdom (Matthew 25:31 Matthew 16:28 2 Peter 1:11) and fulfill all the promises given Israel; Israel will possess the promised land (Jeremiah 30:3 Ezekiel 36:24).

      2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

      2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

      The church, the body of Christ, has been given promises as well according to the verse above:

      1) Comfort in tribulations (2 Corinthians 1:4)

      2) Forgiveness in Christ (2 Corinthians 2:10)

      3) The spiritual blessings of the new testament by the blood of Christ (2 Corinthians 3:6)

      4) The gospel of Christ (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

      5) A resurrected body (2 Corinthians 5:1)

      6) The earnest of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 5:5)

      7) The ministry of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:19)

    2. #2
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      Perhaps Romans 9:6-8 will help you.

      But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Particular View Post
      Perhaps Romans 9:6-8 will help you.

      But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
      How are things in Finland?

      Yes you are right .....the believing remnant of Israel will inherit the promises (Hebrews 6:12)

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      Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
      How are things in Finland?

      Yes you are right .....the believing remnant of Israel will inherit the promises (Hebrews 6:12)
      The children of the promise will inherit the Promise because God has chosen to redeem them. The children of the promise, the true Israel of God, come from every nation, tribe and tongue.
      You would know this if you read all the Bible and understood God's overarching plan.

    5. Likes Michael liked this post
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      Indeed, the New Covenant was made only with Israel and Judah -

      “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”" - Jer 31:31-34

      And this is confirmed in the New Testament as well -

      "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” - Heb 8:8-12

      And this is the New Covenant that Jesus shed His Blood for -

      "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”
      27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. "
      - Matt 28:26-28

      There is no Covenant made with us Gentiles apart from Israel.

      That being said... us Gentiles enter into that same Covenant, and the same Promise made to Israel, by Christ Jesus, the "Lion of the tribe of Judah."

      Remember the Jewish Man Jesus, who had at one point proclaimed - “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 15:24), was always in communion with the Father, and in the following passage, hearing from God that the time was now to include the Gentiles, ministered healing and Life to the woman from Canaan, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour." (Matt 15:28)

      And to confirm this Truth, our Lord Jesus taught again, more clearly -

      "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd." - John 10:14-16

      Oh, yes, the barrier is gone. Jew & Gentile are alike in Christ. The promises and warnings are the same to both.

      "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3:26-29

      Amen.
      "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. Its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” - 1Cor 11:3
      "let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous" - 1John 3:7

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      Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
      Indeed, the New Covenant was made only with Israel and Judah -

      “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”" - Jer 31:31-34

      And this is confirmed in the New Testament as well -

      "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” - Heb 8:8-12

      And this is the New Covenant that Jesus shed His Blood for -

      "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”
      27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. "
      - Matt 28:26-28

      There is no Covenant made with us Gentiles apart from Israel.

      That being said... us Gentiles enter into that same Covenant, and the same Promise made to Israel, by Christ Jesus, the "Lion of the tribe of Judah."

      Remember the Jewish Man Jesus, who had at one point proclaimed - “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 15:24), was always in communion with the Father, and in the following passage, hearing from God that the time was now to include the Gentiles, ministered healing and Life to the woman from Canaan, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour." (Matt 15:28)

      And to confirm this Truth, our Lord Jesus taught again, more clearly -

      "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd." - John 10:14-16

      Oh, yes, the barrier is gone. Jew & Gentile are alike in Christ. The promises and warnings are the same to both.

      "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3:26-29

      Amen.
      The body of Christ does not enter into the new covenant (Romans 9:4).....we get the spiritual blessings and benefit of the new testament (Romans 15:27 2 Corinthians 3:6).

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      Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
      The body of Christ does not enter into the new covenant (Romans 9:4).....we get the spiritual blessings and benefit of the new testament (Romans 15:27 2 Corinthians 3:6).
      "For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
      13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit."
      - 1Cor 12:12-13

      What I've stated in my previous post is 100% correct. There is no separate covenant or "testament" for the Gentile believer apart from Israel. And there is no "Church" apart from the "Israel of God."

      Some teach a Gentile Church today, but there is zero Biblical support for that. Paul in Romans 11 puts an end to any debate. If we Gentile believers are not "grafted into" the one olive tree that is Israel, we have no part in the Kingdom of God or the promises of Rev 2 & 3.

      Much of the teaching of 2 separate churches, or kingdoms, is the result of the "Christian Religion" attempting to prove that we will somehow avoid the testings and Tribulation that will refine the saints. The plethora of passages that warn or bring conviction upon church-goers are pushed off onto the Jews.

      Again, we read the Truth that, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3:28-29

      Amen.
      "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. Its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” - 1Cor 11:3
      "let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous" - 1John 3:7

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      Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
      "For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
      13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit."
      - 1Cor 12:12-13

      What I've stated in my previous post is 100% correct. There is no separate covenant or "testament" for the Gentile believer apart from Israel. And there is no "Church" apart from the "Israel of God."

      Some teach a Gentile Church today, but there is zero Biblical support for that. Paul in Romans 11 puts an end to any debate. If we Gentile believers are not "grafted into" the one olive tree that is Israel, we have no part in the Kingdom of God or the promises of Rev 2 & 3.

      Much of the teaching of 2 separate churches, or kingdoms, is the result of the "Christian Religion" attempting to prove that we will somehow avoid the testings and Tribulation that will refine the saints. The plethora of passages that warn or bring conviction upon church-goers are pushed off onto the Jews.

      Again, we read the Truth that, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3:28-29

      Amen.
      In regards to the olive tree....Paul is speaking of the election of grace and the Gentiles that were grafted into the olive tree were grafted in by believing the gospel of the kingdom in which the remnant would enter into the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth

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      Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
      In regards to the olive tree....Paul is speaking of the election of grace and the Gentiles that were grafted into the olive tree were grafted in by believing the gospel of the kingdom in which the remnant would enter into the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth
      Indeed, the Kingdom IS coming to the earth, the Kingdom of God as we read throughout the Old and New Testaments.
      There is only One Kingdom. Some have mistakenly been taught that there is a separate kingdom on earth for the Jews, and a kingdom in the spiritual realm for Gentile church-goers.

      What the Scripture teaches is the Kingdom of God, New Jerusalem, is coming to the physical earth after the 1000 year time period between the resurrection of the Elect of God who will dethrone the current "principalities and rulers of darkness in the heavenlies" and take their place, and the Second Resurrection (the sheep and goats of the nations), in which all will be judged "according to their works" and either enter into the Kingdom as the inheritance of the saints, (which will be the great bulk of people), or be cast from God's Presence forever (which will be the wicked, whether or not they 'accepted Christ').

      This is the "blessed hope" of the Church, and what truly changed my life when the Lord gave me understanding.

      Yes, this is my testimony and hope- http://to-him-who-overcomes.com/essays

      God's Wisdom and Understanding to all.
      "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. Its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” - 1Cor 11:3
      "let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous" - 1John 3:7

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      Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
      Indeed, the Kingdom IS coming to the earth, the Kingdom of God as we read throughout the Old and New Testaments.
      There is only One Kingdom. Some have mistakenly been taught that there is a separate kingdom on earth for the Jews, and a kingdom in the spiritual realm for Gentile church-goers.

      What the Scripture teaches is the Kingdom of God, New Jerusalem, is coming to the physical earth after the 1000 year time period between the resurrection of the Elect of God who will dethrone the current "principalities and rulers of darkness in the heavenlies" and take their place, and the Second Resurrection (the sheep and goats of the nations), in which all will be judged "according to their works" and either enter into the Kingdom as the inheritance of the saints, (which will be the great bulk of people), or be cast from God's Presence forever (which will be the wicked, whether or not they 'accepted Christ').

      This is the "blessed hope" of the Church, and what truly changed my life when the Lord gave me understanding.

      Yes, this is my testimony and hope- http://to-him-who-overcomes.com/essays

      God's Wisdom and Understanding to all.
      If there is only one kingdom on earth why did Paul say there is a heavenly kingdom 2 Timothy 4:18

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