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    Christian Theology - Thread: Usury?

    1. #31
      NathanH83 is offline Rookie Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      That analogy is nowhere even close in comparisons of what happens with a loan. With a loan you're giving your full consent. With a bike stolen it is without your consent.

      What's consent got to do with it?
      God tells his people not to charge interest to the poor among you. Even if the poor consent to it. Even if the poor sign their name on the dotted line.

      Does the scripture say, "Don't charge the poor interest without their consent."?

      No! It says don't charge them. Period. Consent has nothing to do with it.

    2. #32
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by NathanH83 View Post
      What's consent got to do with it?
      God tells his people not to charge interest to the poor among you. Even if the poor consent to it. Even if the poor sign their name on the dotted line.

      Does the scripture say, "Don't charge the poor interest without their consent."?

      No! It says don't charge them. Period. Consent has nothing to do with it.
      I'm talking about you going for a mortgage or auto loan and getting charged interest...you're doing that with your consent to be charged. You tried using some analogy of a bike getting stolen but you didn't consent to that so the analogy fails.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    3. #33
      NathanH83 is offline Rookie Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      I'm talking about you going for a mortgage or auto loan and getting charged interest...you're doing that with your consent to be charged. You tried using some analogy of a bike getting stolen but you didn't consent to that so the analogy fails.

      Read the scriptures. It condemns Usury. Even if the borrower agrees to it. The Bible still says that the lender should not charge interest. The only exception is if the borrower is a foreigner. Deuteronomy allows charging a foreigner.

    4. #34
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by NathanH83 View Post
      Read the scriptures. It condemns Usury. Even if the borrower agrees to it. The Bible still says that the lender should not charge interest. The only exception is if the borrower is a foreigner. Deuteronomy allows charging a foreigner.
      Do you understand how your analogy fails though about the bike?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    5. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by NathanH83 View Post
      If someone steals my bike out of my garage, then they are the ones who are guilty of stealing, not me. Even if I leave it unlocked, even if I let them steal it, even if I find out who they are and decline to call the cops and press charges, THEY are the ones guilty of stealing, not me.
      That's not the same thing - in your example you are a passive innocent party. A better analogy would be to argue that riding a bike was sinful and you bought someone else a bike to ride, justifying it because you weren't actually doing the riding.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    6. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Do you understand how your analogy fails though about the bike?
      Do you think I care about the bike analogy?
      The point is that Usury is a sin, and many professing Christians who work at banks giving out loans are guilty of sin. They're going to Hell.

    7. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by NathanH83 View Post
      Do you think I care about the bike analogy?
      The point is that Usury is a sin, and many professing Christians who work at banks giving out loans are guilty of sin. They're going to Hell.
      Then don't bring an analogy into it LOL

      You honestly believe that those who work at banks are going to hell?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    8. #38
      NathanH83 is offline Rookie Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Then don't bring an analogy into it LOL

      You honestly believe that those who work at banks are going to hell?
      The Bible says that those who put out their money at Usury are going to Hell.
      That's not everyone who works at a bank. Obviously the basic tellers are not, neither are the janitors. But those who are giving and approving loans, yes they are guilty. The Bible says they are.

    9. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by NathanH83 View Post
      The Bible says that those who put out their money at Usury are going to Hell.
      That's not everyone who works at a bank. Obviously the basic tellers are not, neither are the janitors. But those who are giving and approving loans, yes they are guilty. The Bible says they are.
      So how does Jesus and the forgiveness won at the cross fit into any of this?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    10. #40
      NathanH83 is offline Rookie Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      So how does Jesus and the forgiveness won at the cross fit into any of this?
      If you don't know then you don't know the gospel. Forgiveness comes when you repent. If you don't repent, you won't be forgiven.

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