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    Christian Theology - Thread: Usury?

    1. #1
      NathanH83 is offline Rookie Member
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      Usury?

      The Bible says Usury is wrong.

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      Quote Originally Posted by NathanH83 View Post
      The Bible says Usury is wrong.
      I wish my bank would agree!!
      "I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ,
      the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."
      - 1Cor 11:3

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      Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
      I wish my bank would agree!!
      Same for a school I attended but due to unfortunate circumstances never got to complete, looks like I'm forever paying back the loan plus incredible interest with a job I never got til I die :/

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      Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
      Same for a school I attended but due to unfortunate circumstances never got to complete, looks like I'm forever paying back the loan plus incredible interest with a job I never got til I die :/
      I told my wife yesterday that I think my student loans should be paid off about 5 or 6 years after I die at the rate I am going. Unfortunately my story is not unusual.

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      Quote Originally Posted by NathanH83 View Post
      The Bible says Usury is wrong.
      What point are you trying to make here?
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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      A usury is usually about excessive rates for paying back loans. Sometimes in the bible we find that loans are forgiven completely but there are other times when the loans are just reduced.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      A usury is usually about excessive rates for paying back loans. Sometimes in the bible we find that loans are forgiven completely but there are other times when the loans are just reduced.
      I know what usury is, just n ot sure what purpose it serves to simply make a one-line statement.

      It's the kind of thing that tends to end up being great for tubthumping but not very good for useful discussion. In a discussion about "excessive" rates we first need to figure out what counts as "excessive" and whether it changes based on the circumstances. We might argue that charging someone 8000% APY on a $25,000 loan for six years is excessive, but charging someone $5 to borrow $50 for a week probably works out at a higher theoretical annual interest rate. It's also worth considering whether something is "excessive" when compared to the alternatives it might help prevent - paying $10 to borrow $50 for a week might theoretically be a truly eye-popping annual interest rate but it beats paying a late payment fee on a credit card and having your entire credit balance shifted to a penalty interest rate.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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      Quote Originally Posted by NathanH83 View Post
      The Bible says Usury is wrong.
      Usury is condemned in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, Nehemiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah.

      But people think Jesus' parable in Luke 19 is saying that Usury is OK.

      Thoughts?

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      Quote Originally Posted by NathanH83 View Post
      Usury is condemned in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, Nehemiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah.

      But people think Jesus' parable in Luke 19 is saying that Usury is OK.

      Thoughts?
      I don't think the parable in Luke 19 has any bearing at all on the issue of usury. In Luke 19 ten servants are given 10 minas each although we only hear the results from three of them. One got a 100% return, one got a 50% return, and one got no return at all because he didn't do anything with it. The text shows the master saying "do business until I return" and then asking what profit they received by trading. If anything this suggests the text is nothing at all to do with acceptable interest rates where lending is concerned.

      As far as usury is concerned the crucial elements in determining interest rates are the size of the loan and the duration, and the creditworthiness of the borrower. If someone has a track record of borrowing money and not repaying it we can hardly be surprised if the lender wants an increased interest rate to cover the increased risk they won't see their money again. The overall effect of trying to crack down on "excessive" interest rates (whatever that term is taken to mean) is that the people at the bottom of the credit spectrum will be excluded from the credit market completely.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    12. #10
      NathanH83 is offline Rookie Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
      I don't think the parable in Luke 19 has any bearing at all on the issue of usury. In Luke 19 ten servants are given 10 minas each although we only hear the results from three of them. One got a 100% return, one got a 50% return, and one got no return at all because he didn't do anything with it. The text shows the master saying "do business until I return" and then asking what profit they received by trading. If anything this suggests the text is nothing at all to do with acceptable interest rates where lending is concerned.

      As far as usury is concerned the crucial elements in determining interest rates are the size of the loan and the duration, and the creditworthiness of the borrower. If someone has a track record of borrowing money and not repaying it we can hardly be surprised if the lender wants an increased interest rate to cover the increased risk they won't see their money again. The overall effect of trying to crack down on "excessive" interest rates (whatever that term is taken to mean) is that the people at the bottom of the credit spectrum will be excluded from the credit market completely.
      Biblically, any interest is Usury, even as low as 1%.

      Is Jesus saying it's ok?

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