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  • Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
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    Christian Theology - Thread: Is Baptism Just an Inert Outward Symbol?

    1. #71
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Lamm, you have now moved entirely away from scripture and you make your argument from perceived experience.
      Feelings do not drive faith.
      God gives faith (no water necessary). We see all the saints before the cross receiving faith with no water applied. Perhaps you received faith earlier and the water symbolized what God had done. You felt a euphoria at obeying God in being water baptized, yet your faith was there before water ever touched you body.
      I have addressed and gone through the scripture verses you shared. Would you care to exegete them yourself to show us what exactly God says happens in water baptism?

      You really don't listen to what people say here so why do you keep writing?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    2. Likes Josiah, zecryphon_nomdiv liked this post
    3. #72
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      Quote Originally Posted by zecryphon_nomdiv View Post
      Acts 2:38-39 says Baptism forgives sins. You can't deal with this, so to detract from the fact that you can't deal with this Scriptural truth, you lie about how I use the Bible and what I use it for, as if you'd have any clue in the first place. A diversionary tactic you love to employ in threads where you get into theological trouble. So, I will say it again, stop bearing false witness about those who dare to disagree with you. IOW, stop lying, if you even can.
      We have gone over this. You misuse scripture in this instance and thus have a bad interpretation.
      Read the passage. If you are correct, it brings up multiple theological problems that make salvation by works, not by grace. Do you really believe salvation is by human works and not by God's grace alone?

      Acts 2:37-41 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

    4. #73
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      You really don't listen to what people say here so why do you keep writing?
      Lamm, I saw what you wrote, read it, and responded. How you react is up to you.
      Faith is fueled by facts, not by feelings.

    5. #74
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      At what age do “infants” repent

      Please read the opening post and title of the thread.

      You have the wrong thread; there is a thread about the Anabsptist invention in the 16th Century about an AGE requirement BUT THIS IS NOT THAT THREAD. Attempts to get the thread closed and trashed failed, it seems now the desire is to hijack it to ANY other topic; meanwhile, over at the thread that IS about AGE, no one can get you to list any Scriptures on Baptism that so much as even mention some AGE, for anything, about anyone... just endless repetitions that the Bible states mystical age of X (you just won't list it) and endless repetitions that we cannot do anything is not clearly illustrated as done in the Bible (such as posting on the internet) and cannot do what is not clearly illustrated as done in the Bible - a rubric you clearly reject and never once actually follow (in anything, not even Baptism). Oh, and the endless claim that every baptism in the BIble was of one over this page of we-won't-tell-you, while proving the clsim is not true. IF - finally - you an show the Bible states this prohibition on Baptism because of AGE - then finally quote that Scripture. BUT NOT HERE.


      This thread is for you to list all those Scriptures (and other voices, if you chose) that confirms the Anbaptist/Baptist distinctive dogma that baptism is ONLY a symbol, "an outward symbol of a previous accomplishment by the recipient." An inert, purely symbolic jesture. I listed much that suggests it's not true in post #1.... we are now on page 8, and so far, NOTHING - not one Scripture, not one ANYTHING - has been presented to support the reinvention of Baptism by the Anabaptist in the 16th Century, the distinctive dogma of Baptists, the dogma you and others echo endlessly. If you have nothing - okay, I understand, no problem. MennoSota at least stated that (to his credit) but if you too have nothing, then why are you posting here? If this defining, distinctive Dogma Baptists so powerfully stress has nothing in Scripture (or anywhere else before that Anabaptist wrote stuff such as quoted above), OK. I suspect if any had anything, it would have been stated by now, however.



      Thank you.



      - Josiah







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      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    6. #75
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Lamm, I saw what you wrote, read it, and responded. How you react is up to you.
      Faith is fueled by facts, not by feelings.
      Did I mention "feelings"? That's pure speculation on your part and I appreciate you don't add things that aren't there. Thank you.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    7. #76
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Did I mention "feelings"? That's pure speculation on your part and I appreciate you don't add things that aren't there. Thank you.
      So, you had no feelings and you can back up your experience with facts from the Bible?
      Where does the Bible say that being water baptized will give you faith and the Holy Spirit?
      Second, if it takes the work of water baptism in order to get faith and the Holy Spirit, how is that not salvation by works as well as synergism?

    8. #77
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      We have gone over this. You misuse scripture in this instance and thus have a bad interpretation.
      Read the passage. If you are correct, it brings up multiple theological problems that make salvation by works, not by grace. Do you really believe salvation is by human works and not by God's grace alone?

      Acts 2:37-41 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
      It is not salvation by works. Repentance is a fruit of faith, not something a person does to gain faith. It is God's will that all be saved, which means that He can choose to use whatever means He has established to save people. God instituted Baptism. He instituted Communion. He divinely inspired the people who wrote down Holy Scripture.

      We see from Scripture that Baptism forgives sins and delivers the gift of the Holy Spirit. We see that Communion forgives sins. You deny that these two Sacraments have any worth to the Christian and are mere symbols and have also had the incredible disrespect to write them off as "magical." What is the point of talking to you, when all you want to do is attack other people and not address the points they've raised?

    9. #78
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      I am going to just leave this here for all of you to consider.


    10. #79
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bluezone777 View Post
      I am going to just leave this here for all of you to consider.
      Hmm. Another lecturer carefully rebutting a proposition that almost no Christian church teaches.

    11. #80
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      Quote Originally Posted by zecryphon_nomdiv View Post
      It is not salvation by works. Repentance is a fruit of faith, not something a person does to gain faith. It is God's will that all be saved, which means that He can choose to use whatever means He has established to save people. God instituted Baptism. He instituted Communion. He divinely inspired the people who wrote down Holy Scripture.

      We see from Scripture that Baptism forgives sins and delivers the gift of the Holy Spirit. We see that Communion forgives sins. You deny that these two Sacraments have any worth to the Christian and are mere symbols and have also had the incredible disrespect to write them off as "magical." What is the point of talking to you, when all you want to do is attack other people and not address the points they've raised?
      Indeed, God chooses whom He wills. God redeems whom He wills. God brings whom He wills to repentance. Baptism not needed for any of it. Therefore, God calls us to obedience in baptism, not because it saves us or forgives sins, but because it expresses to foreigners that we are citizens of God's Kingdom and are no longer citizens of the worldly kingdoms who are in rebellion against God.

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