Communion of the Body of Christ

Andrew · Sep 13, 2019

Jesus ascended into Heaven in a supernatural body, he can transcend, appear and vanish, this is accounted for in the 40 days after the resurrection and before his ascension.
I believe that since we accept that we make up the spiritual and physical Body of Christ on Earth as in Heaven (because we are both physical members as well as spiritual members in Christ) that Jesus has presence in communion and through the communion of saints because we are in essence his spiritual presence on Earth and will be gathered with Him in Heaven.
So this all sounds absurd to non Christians wouldn't you agree?
Yet WE understand it, so why do some of us think that the breaking of bread and wine among believers is fine by itself but weird if we say that we are literally absorbing the body of Jesus?
I say that all denominations have it RIGHT! Whether they call it physical presence, spiritual or both, they should never be ridiculed as "no its only symbolic he didn't really mean "is" as "is"), they might as well say "no we aren't really the Body of Christ on Earth, it's just symbolic"...
It's as exactly as Jesus says it is, we must not think too humanly about the fact that our Lord is transcendent for we have an all powerful and Sovereign omniscient God and it's unwise to debate among ourselves otherwise.

zecryphon_nomdiv · Sep 14, 2019

Andrew said:
Jesus ascended into Heaven in a supernatural body, he can transcend, appear and vanish, this is accounted for in the 40 days after the resurrection and before his ascension.
I believe that since we accept that we make up the spiritual and physical Body of Christ on Earth as in Heaven (because we are both physical members as well as spiritual members in Christ) that Jesus has presence in communion and through the communion of saints because we are in essence his spiritual presence on Earth and will be gathered with Him in Heaven.
So this all sounds absurd to non Christians wouldn't you agree?
Yet WE understand it, so why do some of us think that the breaking of bread and wine among believers is fine by itself but weird if we say that we are literally absorbing the body of Jesus?
I say that all denominations have it RIGHT! Whether they call it physical presence, spiritual or both, they should never be ridiculed as "no its only symbolic he didn't really mean "is" as "is"), they might as well say "no we aren't really the Body of Christ on Earth, it's just symbolic"...
It's as exactly as Jesus says it is, we must not think too humanly about the fact that our Lord is transcendent for we have an all powerful and Sovereign omniscient God and it's unwise to debate among ourselves otherwise.

Not all churches have it right. I've attended churches that have said that Christ is not present in Communion, in any way, shape, or form. They taught that the Lord's Supper is a memorial we Christians observe to remember what He did for us and that it is an ordinance and not a Sacrament.

NewCreation435 · Sep 14, 2019

If your talking about being spiritually present with us, this is not just true during communion but in every single moment of life.
Colossians 1:15-17
15 "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

It is literally his power that holds all the atoms of our world together. And it would be impossible for me not to be in his presence.
Of course, we do view communion differently as an act of the church. Some see it as a ordinance and others see it as a sacrament. Some have closed communion meaning I couldn't share it with them if I went to their church as a visitor and some have it as open and available to any that will come to the table.

psalms 91 · Sep 14, 2019

jsimms435 said:
If your talking about being spiritually present with us, this is not just true during communion but in every single moment of life.
Colossians 1:15-17
15 "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

It is literally his power that holds all the atoms of our world together. And it would be impossible for me not to be in his presence.
Of course, we do view communion differently as an act of the church. Some see it as a ordinance and others see it as a sacrament. Some have closed communion meaning I couldn't share it with them if I went to their church as a visitor and some have it as open and available to any that will come to the table.

Yes and I will not attend any church that closes their communion, it should be open to all

Andrew · Sep 14, 2019

zecryphon_nomdiv said:
Not all churches have it right. I've attended churches that have said that Christ is not present in Communion, in any way, shape, or form. They taught that the Lord's Supper is a memorial we Christians observe to remember what He did for us and that it is an ordinance and not a Sacrament.

Well they are wrong.
When I said "all" I was referring to those who believe "is" means "is" but have a different idea on how. The thing is we don't know "how". From my understanding Catholics believe that the bread and wine become the physical Body of Christ while Lutherans might say it becomes a spiritual presence, correct me if I'm wrong on that I've never been to a Lutheran communion.

Albion · Sep 14, 2019

Andrew said:
Well they are wrong.
When I said "all" I was referring to those who believe "is" means "is" but have a different idea on how. The thing is we don't know "how". From my understanding Catholics believe that the bread and wine become the physical Body of Christ while Lutherans might say it becomes a spiritual presence, correct me if I'm wrong on that I've never been to a Lutheran communion.

That is wrong, but I'll let a Lutheran explain why.

Lamb · Sep 14, 2019

Andrew said:
Well they are wrong.
When I said "all" I was referring to those who believe "is" means "is" but have a different idea on how. The thing is we don't know "how". From my understanding Catholics believe that the bread and wine become the physical Body of Christ while Lutherans might say it becomes a spiritual presence, correct me if I'm wrong on that I've never been to a Lutheran communion.

Lutherans will go by what Jesus says and not try to explain it further...Jesus said This IS my body, this IS my blood. That means that in, with and under the bread and wine ARE His body and blood. That's Real Presence. Not symbolic. Not just spiritual.

Andrew · Sep 14, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Lutherans will go by what Jesus says and not try to explain it further...Jesus said This IS my body, this IS my blood. That means that in, with and under the bread and wine ARE His body and blood. That's Real Presence. Not symbolic. Not just spiritual.

Got it and thanks! I agree

I was mistaken so I apologize

Josiah · Sep 14, 2019

What does the opening poster mean by "communion?" Is this the "Communion of saints" - the unity Christians share via their common faith in Christ, or is this Holy Communion (aka The Eucharist, The Lord's Supper)?

Josiah · Sep 14, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Lutherans will go by what Jesus says and not try to explain it further...Jesus said This IS my body, this IS my blood. That means that in, with and under the bread and wine ARE His body and blood. That's Real Presence. Not symbolic. Not just spiritual.

IF this thread is about Holy Communion - The Eucharist - The Lord's Supper, then you are absolutely correct.

The Lutheran position (Known as Real Presence) is very simple: The words mean what they state.
"This" = this.
"Is" = is (the word has to do with reality, presence, being, "there").
"Bread" = bread.
"Wine" = wine.
"My" = my.
"Body" = body.
"Blood" = blood.
"Forgiveness" = forgiveness.
Just what Jesus said. Just what Paul by divine inspiration penned.

NO doubt. NO deletions. NO additions or substitutions. NO explanations. NO inserted medieval false ideas of physics.
The THAT is affirmed, the HOW is left alone. It's called the Mystery of Real Presence.
Lutherans don't replace any word with "change" "not" "seems like" "transformed" "alchemy" "Aristotle" "symbolizes" "appearance".
We hold that Jesus meant what He said and said what He meant. Same with St. Paul.
That's it. That's all.
Simple.

.

atpollard · Sep 14, 2019

Josiah said:
IF this thread is about Holy Communion - The Eucharist - The Lord's Supper, then you are absolutely correct.

The Lutheran position (Known as Real Presence) is very simple: The words mean what they state.
"This" = this.
"Is" = is (the word has to do with reality, presence, being, "there").
"Bread" = bread.
"Wine" = wine.
"My" = my.
"Body" = body.
"Blood" = blood.
"Forgiveness" = forgiveness.
Just what Jesus said. Just what Paul by divine inspiration penned.

NO doubt. NO deletions. NO additions or substitutions. NO explanations. NO inserted medieval false ideas of physics.
The THAT is affirmed, the HOW is left alone. It's called the Mystery of Real Presence.
Lutherans don't replace any word with "change" "not" "seems like" "transformed" "alchemy" "Aristotle" "symbolizes" "appearance".
We hold that Jesus meant what He said and said what He meant. Same with St. Paul.
That's it. That's all.
Simple.

.

So Jesus’ Body is made of bread and Jesus’ blood is made of wine just as Jesus said. The words mean EXACTLY what they say because Jesus never uses imagery or symbolism or typologies when explaining spiritual truths.

Albion · Sep 14, 2019

atpollard said:
The words mean EXACTLY what they say because Jesus never uses imagery or symbolism or typologies when explaining spiritual truths.

Of course he did, but it is not the case that everything he said was in the form of an analogy or metaphor. You know this since all fundamentalists like to say that the Bible means literally, exactly, what the word means...when it is to their advantage, that is.

Ergo, the bread and wine cannot somehow have been changed by Christ's intention, but if you let the water hit you in just the wrong way when you're baptized, then it is invalid. It's absurd as well as hypocritical.

psalms 91 · Sep 14, 2019

Wow what a backhanded swipe that was at a whole denomination maybe a few of them

Andrew · Sep 14, 2019

Josiah said:
What does the opening poster mean by "communion?" Is this the "Communion of saints" - the unity Christians share via their common faith in Christ, or is this Holy Communion (aka The Eucharist, The Lord's Supper)?

The Last Supper

Andrew · Sep 14, 2019

psalms 91 said:
Wow what a backhanded swipe that was at a whole denomination maybe a few of them

Did I miss something? Not sure who or what exactly you are addressing

Josiah · Sep 14, 2019

Andrew said:
The Last Supper

Thanks.

Then my post #10 expresses my view.

Blessings!

.

Josiah · Sep 14, 2019

atpollard said:
Josiah said:

The Lutheran position (Known as Real Presence) is very simple: The words mean what they state.
"This" = this.
"Is" = is (the word has to do with reality, presence, being, "there").
"Bread" = bread.
"Wine" = wine.
"My" = my.
"Body" = body.
"Blood" = blood.
"Forgiveness" = forgiveness.
Just what Jesus said. Just what Paul by divine inspiration penned.

NO doubt. NO deletions. NO additions or substitutions. NO explanations. NO inserted medieval false ideas of physics.
The THAT is affirmed, the HOW is left alone. It's called the Mystery of Real Presence.
Lutherans don't replace any word with "change" "not" "seems like" "transformed" "alchemy" "Aristotle" "symbolizes" "appearance".
We hold that Jesus meant what He said and said what He meant. Same with St. Paul.
That's it. That's all.
Simple.

.

Click to expand...

Jesus’ Body is made of bread and Jesus’ blood is made of wine just as Jesus said.

Wow, never heard that wild idea before! That's wild! Of course, neither Jesus or Paul so much as even MENTIONED "made" or "of" so no, that's not what Jesus said or Paul penned.

My position is as I posted. It is what Jesus said and Paul by inspiration penned. That's it, that's all. It was good enough for 100% of Christians for over 1500 years, and remains so for me.

Blessings

- Josiah

.

MennoSota · Sep 14, 2019

atpollard said:
So Jesus’ Body is made of bread and Jesus’ blood is made of wine just as Jesus said. The words mean EXACTLY what they say because Jesus never uses imagery or symbolism or typologies when explaining spiritual truths.

Yep, either that or Jesus is promoting cannibalism. In any case, it is clear that Jesus never used imagery, symbolism or typology when explaining spiritual truths.

atpollard · Sep 14, 2019

Josiah said:
Lutherans don't replace any word with "change" "not" "seems like" "transformed" "alchemy" "Aristotle" "symbolizes" "appearance".
We hold that Jesus meant what He said and said what He meant.
That's it. That's all.
Simple.

[Mat 26:26 NASB] 26 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
[Mar 14:22 NASB] 22 While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this is My body."
[Luk 22:19 NASB] 19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."

Q. What was Jesus holding and claimed was His body when He “meant what He said and said what He meant”?
A. Bread.

MennoSota · Sep 14, 2019

atpollard said:
[Mat 26:26 NASB] 26 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
[Mar 14:22 NASB] 22 While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this is My body."
[Luk 22:19 NASB] 19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."

Q. What was Jesus holding and claimed was His body when He “meant what He said and said what He mean”?
A. Bread.

Jesus meant what he said and said what he meant. [emoji16]

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