How do you feel about female pastors?

NewCreation435 · Sep 12, 2019

Do you think it is biblical for pastors who preach and teach in the church to be female? If so, why and what is your biblical support for this?

How do you deal with that in light of what 1 Timothy 2:11-12 says
11 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

psalms 91 · Sep 13, 2019

jsimms435 said:
Do you think it is biblical for pastors who preach and teach in the church to be female? If so, why and what is your biblical support for this?

How do you deal with that in light of what 1 Timothy 2:11-12 says
11 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

That verse is taken out of context of what was going on at the time. It means quit shouting questions down to your husbands during service and ask them at home, not that they cant be woman pastors. I have no problem with it at all

Josiah · Sep 13, 2019

In terms of Scripture, I think it's debatable.... IMO, I lean toward Scripture teaching a male-only clergy but it's no "slam-dunk."

But as a Lutheran, historic/ecumenical Tradition comes into play to understand those Scriptures (rather than only personal, individual, current feelings about the verses). And for 1900 years, there were no female pastors.... with virtually 100% consensus, for nearly all of Christian history.... regardless of denomination or culture.... these Scriptures were understood as "male only." So, IMO, the "burden of proof" lies with those who hold these Scriptures indicate that women are permitted, and IMO, they don't make that case.

Now, do I argue that a female pastor in the ELCA is invalid, no. Would I vote for the LCMS to change it's "male only" polity? No.

Lamb · Sep 13, 2019

Paul makes mention of how Adam came into being before Eve and looking at that order and what they represent is important to understand why women should not be pastors.

http://theologically-incorrect.blogspot.com/2006/06/pastor-why-do-we-not-have-women.html
"The Scriptures describe Christ as being the Bridegroom and the Church as being His Bride. Pastors stand "in the stead" or "in the place of" Christ as His represetatives to the Church. A female cannot, in a Christian congregation, play Bridegroom to the Bride. The Office of the Holy Ministry is masculine by its very nature. It is an Office of giving, of implanting the Seed of God's Word, while the Church's role is explicitly feminine, that of receiving the implanted Word and giving birth to and nourishing the faithful. A woman will never be able to "plant the seed"--she is only a receiver of the seed. A woman in the role of Bridegroom is, simply put, "Theologically-Incorrect" and a perversion of this relationship and a mis-representation of Christ."

Albion · Sep 13, 2019

How do I feel about female pastors?

Most of them are nice and sincere people. That doesn't mean that the Biblical and historic standards which call for male priests and deacons should be set aside.

But as for that one verse quoted in the Original Post here, Lamm is right. It refers to something else. It is not applicable to the subject here.

NewCreation435 · Sep 13, 2019

psalms 91 said:
That verse is taken out of context of what was going on at the time. It means quit shouting questions down to your husbands during service and ask them at home, not that they cant be woman pastors. I have no problem with it at all

I don't see anywhere in scripture where it is permitted. But, of course, some would say that was a different time and culture then and we have to understand the culture that Paul lived in. Back then, women simply didn't teach men in a religious setting.

JRT · Sep 13, 2019

jsimms435 said:
Do you think it is biblical for pastors who preach and teach in the church to be female? If so, why and what is your biblical support for this?

How do you deal with that in light of what 1 Timothy 2:11-12 says
11 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Patriarchy was part and parcel of their world view --- they simply were unable to think of the role of women in any other way. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himself seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonymously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.

The issue of womens' role in the church is not as clear cut as some people would want to think. The letters of Paul, which date to the middle of the first century AD, provide some clues. For example, Paul greets Prisca, Junia, Julia, and Nereus' sister, who worked and traveled as missionaries in pairs with their husbands or brothers (Romans 16:3, 7, 15) as equals and co-workers. Junia is praised as a prominent apostle, imprisoned for her faith. Mary and Persis are commended for their hard work (Romans 16:6, 12). Euodia and Syntyche are called his fellow-workers in the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Women were the leaders of house churches (Apphia in Philemon 2; Prisca in I Corinthians 16:19), Lydia of Thyatira (Acts 16:15) and Nympha of Laodicea (Colossians 4:15). Women held offices and played significant roles in group worship, such as the deacon Phoebe (Romans 16:1) and women were certainly praying and prophesying during worship (I Corinthians 11). An order of widows served formal roles of ministry (I Timothy 5:9-10). Women prophets included Mary Magdalene, the Corinthian women, Philip's daughters, Ammia of Philadelphia, Philumene, the visionary martyr Perpetua, Maximilla, Priscilla (Prisca), and Quintilla.

Any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils. First, it is the insult to the women themselves by viewing them as less worthy. Second, it is the insult to God by denigrating half of God’s creation. If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.

hedrick · Sep 13, 2019

I’m not so sure there is *a* Biblical view. The undisputed letters of Paul acknowledge female leaders, but it’s a bit unclear what office they, or anyone else mentioned, held. I agree that 1 Cor 14:34 is not about women’s leadership, but about disruptive behavior by members of the congregation. If you actually took the concern in this section as a general commandment about women, you’d prohibit women from talking to their neighbors, not just as leaders.

1 Tim is usually understood as rejecting female leadership, 1 Tim 2:13-15. However this exegesis has troubling implications beyond church leadership. (See below.) There is another possible reading. Suppose instead of women, it is translated as wives. That's perfectly possible. Then it would say that women shouldn’t be put in authority over their husbands. In that can the reference to Genesis wouldn’t be based on the idea that women can’t be trusted because of Eve. Rather, the idea would be that Adam didn’t do his duty as husband. He obeyed Eve’s request to eat the apple without doing his duty as head of judging the request. This has the advantage of being an acceptable exegesis of Genesis. It’s a perfectly possible understanding of the wording. But I think 2:14 tends to suggest that the author actually did intend the misogynist reading that all women are untrustworthy.

Of course if you actually believe that, it doesn’t just involve church office but any function in which we trust the judgement of a woman about right and wrong. The last thing we would want is for them to be in charge of education or upbringing of a child. I think even professional functions such as doctors would be affected. I know no one who actually follows the implications of 1 Tim in any consistent way.

How do you feel about female pastors?

NewCreation435

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psalms 91

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Josiah

simul justus et peccator

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb

Albion

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NewCreation435

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JRT

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hedrick

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