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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: The Earth iks Small, Flat and Unmoving Says the Bible

    1. #1
      Josiah's Avatar
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      The Earth is Small, Flat and Unmoving Says the Bible

      .





      Here's what the BIBLE states:

      The Earth is SQUARE See Revelation 7:1, Revelation 20:7-8, Isaiah 11:12 and many more!

      The Earth is FLAT: Psalm 67:7, Isaiah 45:22, Daniel 4:11, Psalm 72:8 and so many more!

      The Earth is SMALL: Daniel 4:11, Daniel 4:20, Matthew 4:8 and many, many more!

      The Earth is IMMOBLE: 1 Chronicles 16:33, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10 and many more!

      It's all right there!!!!




      .
      Last edited by Josiah; 05-17-2019 at 04:29 PM.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    2. #2
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      Now, I do have a point....


      IMO, the Bible is INERRANT. It is not (and cannot be) wrong. WE however can be wrong.

      No one ever reads the Bible with total objectivity. EVERYONE brings their "world view", a host of perspectives and things we just accept as true, ways we SEE things. We come with glasses on. And those glasses are a product of the culture and age in which we find ourselves; a result of our education (formal and informal), the ways those around us caused us to "see" things and interpret things. It is not possible to take off our glasses, BUT it is possible to realize what the prescription is to those glasses, how they are impacting our "perception." In a sense, we have "trained" our brain.... and that's where we see and understand. And this includes the Bible. And everything else for that matter. This reality is most dangerous when people don't realize their assumptions, the "RX" of their "glasses."


      IMO, the Earth is some 25,000 miles around. It's essentially a ball. So, when I view the video above, I immediately thinks "He's NUTS!" because I'm 99.99% sure the Earth is fairly big and a ball. He CANNOT be right. And of course the Bible CANNOT be wrong. So....the "problem" is not in what the Bible STATES but how he's "seeing" it. I think MOST of us probably react the same way. Thus, you can not only find LOTS of Christians who are absolutely passionate and sincere in insisting the planet we live on is SMALL, SQUARE, FLAT and IMMOBILE but are angry at science for LYING to us, making up all this stuff because they want to discredit the Bible and the Church and God (they are the voice of Satan in our world).


      IMO, we share much of the "world view" of the Greeks and Romans, who had a very materialistic view of things. And especially for the past 200 - 250 years, we tend to be very scientific... with an MODERN view of numbers/math, physics, astrophysics, biology, etc. It might science of a century or more ago, but MODERN nonetheless. MATTER exists and it matters. There are natural LAWS that exist and they are predictable. People may believe in miracles or prayer - there CAN be exceptions or interruptions to all this, but it's still the norm, the rule, the way things are unless God (or whatever) intervenes mightily to set it aside for a moment (and even then, we are apt to think God USES science and natural Law for His purposes). I don't think we realize what an ENORMOUS product we are of the materialistic, natural perspective we have. It was drilled into us from birth. Which is partly why the video above strikes us as so WEIRD.


      In "seeing" Scripture (and really ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, absolutely EVERYTHING), there are two options: Exegesis is to take from. To see what IS THERE (what we'd see if we could take off our glasses) and conclude something (which OUR glasses will want to be reasonable, rational, scientific) and Eisegesis is to put into. To see what comes through our glasses as interpreted by our trained, conditioned brain. And conclude something (always to confirm what we "see" through our glasses).


      The man in the video has his "glasses" (WE ALL DO!!!) and reports what he thus 'sees' (in pretty amazing eisegesis). Actually, it's amazing! How can ANYONE raised in our UBER material/scientific world "read" these verses as he does? What powerful glasses! But.... maybe not. Maybe he is EXACTLY what we'd expect: IMPUTING a mathematial/scientific world view. "Four" means 4 - a numeral between three and five, so "four corners" means well four corners. It's how math works. It's how science works. "World" and "Earth" and "earth" are all the same thing: the third rock from the sun (we've seen a photo of it taken from the Moon). If something doesn't move then it doesn't rotate. Maybe this guy is being VERY smart, very modern! Maybe our English classes (where we've seen figures of speech) is the problem this guy is exposing? OR..... maybe he making a fundamental mistake: His "glasses" telling him that all these verses are speaking about science, math, material, nature - and actually, NONE OF THAT is "there" AT ALL, our "glasses" are putting all that there?


      I'm not sure this is easy (especially since we can't take our glasses off). But here's MY hunch: The ancient Hebrews who penned these verses didn't have glasses with an RX that included geology or astrophysics or biology.... And probably "world" and "earth" had nothing whatsoever to do with planets. They were speaking of GOD and our relationship to GOD. Their "genius" was not 21st Century math and physics and geology but theology. Their RX had a powerful GOD aspects whereas ours don't (although we can pop that in when we want). The video's "mistake" is assuming all the writers of the Bible had the same RX in their glasses as he does.


      I'm limiting the discussion here to issues of theology and science, BUT I'm keenly and rather constantly aware that it impacts everything. How I understand politics and the affairs around me..... how I 'see' society and social issues.... and yes, how I see Theology.

      To ME, it's helpful to get to know my glasses. Perhaps to stop and NOTICE what's actually there and what has been inserted by my glasses? And BECAUSE I'm by training a scientist, because I'm powerfully "wired" that way (MORE than it is POSSIBLE for me to realize), because I 'see' through those glasses, I am APT to 'see' the stuff of science where it isn't. AND thus, to maybe miss the genius of what IS there? And I doubt I'm alone in this.



      End of philosophical musings, lol




      .
      Last edited by Josiah; 05-17-2019 at 04:25 PM.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      Now, I do have a point....
      What about tectonics? Obviously the Earth isn't shaking us around, but the lands do slowly drift.
      The bible never addresses a flat Earth nor a globe Earth.

      However I do like watching flat earth debates online.
      One fellow made a point that if the Earth is round than why would they build a tower to Heaven if it technically has no direction? On a flat Earth they could build it straight upward to Heaven.

      Now let's not be silly Josiah, you don't believe the Earth is flat, and a flat earth theory is no miracle story... I have the feeling you made this thread to make a point towards literal bible believers, so you bring in the flat earth theory?

      I'll watch your video and we can discuss how we agree that we agree.
      If you ever want to talk about dismissing miracle events in the name of science we have a thread for that as well

    4. #4
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      Watched your video for kicks.
      At least with this we can presently observe, however we shouldn't dismiss miracles that happened in the past.
      Btw I think they are sending people to the moon in a few years so this should settle it once and for all, see you there brother! I imagine from the moon the Earth looks like a circle, something the Bible believes as well

    5. #5
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      The Earth iks Small, Flat and Unmoving Says the Bible

      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      .





      Here's what the BIBLE states:

      The Earth is SQUARE See Revelation 7:1, Revelation 20:7-8, Isaiah 11:12 and many more!

      The Earth is FLAT: Psalm 67:7, Isaiah 45:22, Daniel 4:11, Psalm 72:8 and so many more!

      The Earth is SMALL: Daniel 4:11, Daniel 4:20, Matthew 4:8 and many, many more!

      The Earth is IMMOBLE: 1 Chronicles 16:33, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10 and many more!

      It's all right there!!!!




      .
      It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
      Isaiah 40:22 -NASB

      Since when is a circle square?
      Since when is a circle flat?



      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      "Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ Romans 5:1

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      Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
      WI have the feeling you made this thread to make a point towards literal bible believers

      "Literal"... what? Ah, that's my point.

      No, this has nothing to do with miracles. In fact, in our modern world view, a force big enough CAN cause the laws of nature to change (witness Black Holes, for example); most modern people believe in miracles (whether or not they are Christians) but they still assume a view of science, numbers, physics, etc.... just that such can be "set aside" The video doesn't hold that it's a miracle that the world is flat, square, small and immobile - he is a bible believer. MY question: is he? Or is he simply making a problem obvious... but one really quite common among us all?
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    7. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      "Literal"... what? Ah, that's my point.

      No, this has nothing to do with miracles. In fact, in our modern world view, a force big enough CAN cause the laws of nature to change (witness Black Holes, for example); most modern people believe in miracles (whether or not they are Christians) but they still assume a view of science, numbers, physics, etc.... just that such can be "set aside" The video doesn't hold that it's a miracle that the world is flat, square, small and immobile - he is a bible believer. MY question: is he? Or is he simply making a problem obvious... but one really quite common among us all?
      He is making the Bible say something it doesn't, he may be a Christian, but he is twisting scripture and causing confusion, it doesn't bother me though.
      If I were to bet my soul that the world is a globe I would not, if I were to be my soul that the world is flat I would not.
      Flat Earthers don't believe the Earth is a square with "four corners" anyway, they believe that Antarctica makes up a circle around our known world, they believe there is more land on the other side which is inhabited by reptilian overlords

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      Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
      He is making the Bible say something it doesn't

      Actually, the words perhaps say EXACTLY what he is. See post #2.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      Actually, the words perhaps say EXACTLY what he is. See post #2.
      The Bible says the earth is a sphere not a square or flat!


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      "Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ Romans 5:1

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      Words like "small" are subjective. Compared to a mountain I am small. Compared to me a mouse is small. Compared to a mouse a flea is small. But the flea might look at the mouse and be awestruck by just how big it is.

      Words like immobile require context. Does "immobile" mean totally non-moving in any sense at all? If I lie down and make no movements at all other than things like breathing and my heart beating, am I immobile? We might say that I am on the basis I'm not moving, but what if I'm in the back of a van while someone else drives? I'm not moving but the van is so, even though I'm not moving relative to the van, I am moving relative to the road underneath.

      Square - someone already mentioned Scriptural reference to "the circle of the earth".

      Flat - aside from localised lumps and bumps the earth is pretty flat from where I'm standing. I can look out of my window and see some hills and valleys but nothing to suggest the earth is broadly ball-shaped.

      Gotta love the difference between something being literal and something being figurative. When I was a child and did something wrong my utterance that "my dad's going to kill me" didn't mean I expected my life to end shortly after he got home from work.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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