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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: ROMANS 11 WHO IS THE WILD OLIVE TREE?

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      Doug is offline Apprentice Member
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      ROMANS 11 WHO IS THE WILD OLIVE TREE?

      Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

      God is not done with unbelieving Israel.

      Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

      The remnant is believing Israel and also believing Gentiles. God has always made provision for the Gentiles to be saved through Israel.

      11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

      The election, the Jewish and Gentile believing remnant, has obtained to righteousness by grace through faith. Unbelieving Israel has been blinded.

      11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

      Israel fell because of their rejection of Jesus as Christ, the Son of God. The gospel went out to the Gentiles to provoke Israel to jealousy in order to restore them.

      Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

      Israel, as can be seen in verse 19 above, would also be provoked to jealousy by a foolish nation. The foolish nation is believing Israel. The foolish nation is the remnant of believing Jews and believing Gentiles.

      Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

      Israel's fulness is when Israel obtains all the promises and purpose of God.

      11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

      11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

      Paul, in the book of Romans is addressing three existing groups:

      1 unbelieving Jews and Gentiles.

      2 Jews and Gentiles in the body of Christ who believed the gospel of Christ preached by Paul.

      3 Jew and Gentile kingdom saints who are in Christ by believing the gospel of the kingdom.

      In verse 13 Paul is speaking to Gentile kingdom saints. Paul is saying to the kingdom saint Gentiles (not Gentiles in the church, the body of Christ, according to Paul's gospel) that he will provoke them which are of his flesh, the unbelieving Jews, to salvation.

      Romans 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

      1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

      In verses 6 and 7 above, those called are Jews or Gentiles called into the body of Christ, and Jews or Gentiles called into the kingdom. See 1 Corinthians 1:2 1:24 7:18

      Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

      9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

      Verses 24 and 25 above refers to the holy nation, the little flock, the believing remnant of both Jew and Gentile.

      To conclude then, the Gentiles in Romans 11:13 are Gentile kingdom saints.

      Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

      11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

      In leviticus 23:20 the bread of the firstfruits is holy. The bread is made from flour baked with leaven and offered by the priest. The leavened bread speaks of unbelieving Israel, which is also the root and branches in verse 16.

      11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

      In verse 17 above, thou is Jew or Gentile kingdom saints, the little flock, the remnant. The remnant is the wild olive tree. The root and broken off branches are unbelieving Israel.

      It can be seen from John 15 below that broken off branches refers to unfruitful, unbelieving Israel.

      John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

      15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

      In Matthew below the kingdom will be taken from unbelieving Israel and given to the fruitful nation of Israel. They are not all Israel, which are of Israel, it is only the believing, promised seed. Romans 9:6

      Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

      Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

      The election of grace, the remnant, would also be cut off if they fell into unbelief. They would not get their inheritance in the promised Davidic kingdom.

      11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

      11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

      Unbelieving Israel would be grafted back into their olive tree if they repented and believed.

      11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

      11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

      Israel will be restored when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in; that is when the Gentiles have fulfilled their purpose as determined by God.

      11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

      Jesus will fulfill the New Testament and restore Israel.

      In conclusion, the wild olive tree is the remnant of believing kingdom Jews and Gentiles. The Gentiles spoken of are part of the wild olive tree grafted into the good olive tree; they are kingdom saints, members of the remnant, the little flock, that will enter the coming kingdom on earth. These Gentiles are not in the body of Christ.
      Last edited by Doug; 04-06-2019 at 04:30 PM.

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      YourTruthGod is offline Veteran Member
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      So what kind of tree are the Gentiles?

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      ...lemon trees...

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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      ...lemon trees...
      Doug doesn't want to see that the Gentiles are the wild olive shoot.

      So I have to hear what kind of shoots can be grafted in to an olive tree.

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      Quote Originally Posted by YourTruthGod View Post
      So what kind of tree are the Gentiles?
      Which Gentiles ?

      Unbelieving Gentiles

      Believing gospel of the kingdom Gentiles

      Believing body of Christ Gentiles

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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      ...lemon trees...
      Good one

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      YourTruthGod is offline Veteran Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
      Which Gentiles ?

      Unbelieving Gentiles

      Believing gospel of the kingdom Gentiles

      Believing body of Christ Gentiles
      What do you mean which Gentiles?

      There is only one kind of Gentile grafted in.

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      Quote Originally Posted by YourTruthGod View Post
      What do you mean which Gentiles?

      There is only one kind of Gentile grafted in.
      Hi again

      Ok but I see three kinds of Gentiles being spoken of in Romans.

      First we can eliminate the unbelieving Gentile since they would not be grafted into the olive tree.

      So we are left with believing Gentiles and the question is which gospel was believed:

      #1 they believed the gospel of the kingdom....Peter's gospel....this is the one I see

      #2 they believed the gospel of Christ.......Paul's gospel

      You asked what kind of tree the Gentiles were..... so the gospel of the kingdom Gentiles would be the wild olive tree....the gospel of Christ Gentiles are to my knowledge never referred to as any kind of a tree.

      Oh and by the way....RIGHT ON .....haha
      Last edited by Doug; 04-06-2019 at 08:51 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
      Hi again

      Ok but I see three kinds of Gentiles being spoken of in Romans.

      First we can eliminate the unbelieving Gentile since they would not be grafted into the olive tree.

      So we are left with believing Gentiles and the question is which gospel was believed:

      #1 they believed the gospel of the kingdom....Peter's gospel....this is the one I see

      #2 they believed the gospel of Christ.......Paul's gospel

      You asked what kind of tree the Gentiles were..... so the gospel of the kingdom Gentiles would be the wild olive tree....the gospel of Christ Gentiles are to my knowledge never referred to as any kind of a tree.

      Oh and by the way....RIGHT ON .....haha
      No 'right on' for you yet. haaa You almost got when you tried to make some changes to the OP.

      You said: "In conclusion, the wild olive tree is the remnant of believing Jews and Gentiles."


      The wild olive tree is not the remnant of believing Jews and Gentiles. The wild olive tree are the Gentiles, and the grafted into the cultivated olive tree are the believing Gentiles. The cultivated olive tree had unbelieving Jews cut off, and they can be grafted back into the cultivated olive tree if they do not persist in unbelief.


      You said: "The Gentiles spoken of are part of the wild olive tree grafted into the good olive tree; they are kingdom saints, members of the remnant, the little flock, that will enter the coming kingdom on earth. These Gentiles are not in the body of Christ."


      Think of the olive tree as the body of Christ. There are no two different gospels that save.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
      Hi again

      Ok but I see three kinds of Gentiles being spoken of in Romans.

      First we can eliminate the unbelieving Gentile since they would not be grafted into the olive tree.

      So we are left with believing Gentiles and the question is which gospel was believed:

      #1 they believed the gospel of the kingdom....Peter's gospel....this is the one I see

      #2 they believed the gospel of Christ.......Paul's gospel

      You asked what kind of tree the Gentiles were..... so the gospel of the kingdom Gentiles would be the wild olive tree....the gospel of Christ Gentiles are to my knowledge never referred to as any kind of a tree.

      Oh and by the way....RIGHT ON .....haha
      Right! The Gentiles were grafted in due to Israel's unbelief.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      "Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ Romans 5:1

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