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    Denomination & Faith Movement Discussions - Thread: comparing 7 different denominations

    1. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      This article online compares some seven different denominations. I was looking at it because I was considering visits a different denomination next Sunday. Do you think this brief list is accurate? What other key differences are there?

      https://www.dummies.com/religion/chr...istian-church/

      IMO, it's very much over-simplified. And the "heart" and "passion" of each is entirely ignored. These are meant to be uber-short, overly-simple summeries (and such is always going to have serious flaws).


      Frankly, it might make for some good and helpful threads here at CH. If you could ask members of each specific faith community to convey what they think is special and distinctive of that community.



      I'm not TOO sure that the best approach is to see "who most agrees with ME?" But there are surveys that help do just that. Here's one: http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/sele...christiandenom







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    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      IMO, it's very much over-simplified. And the "heart" and "passion" of each is entirely ignored. These are meant to be uber-short, overly-simple summeries (and such is always going to have serious flaws).


      Frankly, it might make for some good and helpful threads here at CH. If you could ask members of each specific faith community to convey what they think is special and distinctive of that community.



      I'm not TOO sure that the best approach is to see "who most agrees with ME?" But there are surveys that help do just that. Here's one: http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/sele...christiandenom







      .
      I have used that questionnaire before. It doesn't take it account what churches or denominations may be nearby where you live and possible for you to attend

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      A church that thinks being a vegan is a Biblical principle to be observed? The closest to what you may be seeking is probably the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

      It was co-founded in the 19th century by a young person considered to be a prophet, but since the church is not run by so-called prophets on an ongoing basis such as the Mormons do, this (sda) could still be the one for you.
      No. Neither the Seventh Day Adventist church nor I say veganism is a biblical principle to be observed. Though you would respond that it is to the contrary, with verses that there are, which you could, there is basis for veganism in verses of the Bible. I could then still respond refuting that argument. But it would go astray from what is discussed here. I visited a Seventh Day Adventist church, but I did not agree with what I saw is taught, it did not feel right, and there were none there practicing any veganism according to what I was told. And they do go by what that founding "prophet" has written, when I want to be with a church where the Bible is used without anything else given equal attention.

      Though other verses may be used to argue this, and I see some saying I twist scriptures, yet I don't but just show some of many verses showing this, without contradicting any context, there is this theme in the scriptures.

      God said, "I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed, to you it shall be for food." Yahweh God said "It is not good that man should live alone." Out of the ground Yahweh God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. Then Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. So Yahweh said, "I will destroy man who I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air." But Noah found grace in the eyes of Yahweh. Then God spoke to Noah, saying, "Go out of the ark, you, your wife, your sons and their wives. Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you, that they may abound on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth." Then Noah built an altar to Yahweh, and offered burnt offerings. God blessed Noah and his sons, and said, "The fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and all the fish of the sea. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you, I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. But you shall not eat flesh with its blood. For your lifeblood I will require a reckoning." It pleased the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They wrote this letter: "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things, that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from what was strangled, and from sexual immorality. Keep yourselves from these, you will do well." The earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in hope, because the creation itself will also be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. "The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze, their young ones shall lie down together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Yahweh, as the waters cover the sea." "God will wipe away every tear, there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
      Last edited by FredVB; 04-13-2019 at 02:33 PM.

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by FredVB View Post
      A church that thinks being a vegan is a Biblical principle to be observed?
      No. Neither the Seventh Day Adventist church nor I say veganism is a biblical principle to be observed. Though you would respond that it is to the contrary, with verses that there are, which you could, there is basis for veganism in verses of the Bible.
      I think I should still clarify this, I mean I don't claim veganism is essential in being saved, as it is that becoming Jewish is not essential in being saved. Not using animal products was neglected soon in Christianity after the first believers, and then through Christian history, because having it as a requirement would be bad with keeping many people from responding in faith. No believers really start off with living righteously with no more sinning. There is development needed to turn from sin and live more righteously, and there is ongoing growth to turn from more wrong ways as we learn more of Yahweh God's will for us. I yet mean the perfect will of God for us is shown in scriptures including what was in the original design for us. This theme of not using animals continuously is shown in many places running through scriptures. Though God permitted meat from animals in an extreme situation, that in which little edible vegetation would be available, it was with dealing with murder in the same context, the dread of humanity starting (this is a curse, not a blessing), and with requirements including not abusing animals and not using meat with any blood having remained in it, which are not observed by hardly any now claiming they have that permission. That it is demonstrably healthier to eat just whole plant-based food is consistent with not still using animals being in God's perfect will for us, so there is this basis.

    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by FredVB View Post
      I think I should still clarify this, I mean I don't claim veganism is essential in being saved, as it is that becoming Jewish is not essential in being saved. Not using animal products was neglected soon in Christianity after the first believers, and then through Christian history, because having it as a requirement would be bad with keeping many people from responding in faith. No believers really start off with living righteously with no more sinning. There is development needed to turn from sin and live more righteously, and there is ongoing growth to turn from more wrong ways as we learn more of Yahweh God's will for us. I yet mean the perfect will of God for us is shown in scriptures including what was in the original design for us. This theme of not using animals continuously is shown in many places running through scriptures. Though God permitted meat from animals in an extreme situation, that in which little edible vegetation would be available, it was with dealing with murder in the same context, the dread of humanity starting (this is a curse, not a blessing), and with requirements including not abusing animals and not using meat with any blood having remained in it, which are not observed by hardly any now claiming they have that permission. That it is demonstrably healthier to eat just whole plant-based food is consistent with not still using animals being in God's perfect will for us, so there is this basis.
      Jesus ate fish, lamb, and probably beef when it was available.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Jesus ate fish, lamb, and probably beef when it was available.
      As I have been talking about this much, it is not like you share objections I haven't considered or dealt with before. And here I was showing many verses for the theme, which make the point. And the objection you respond with is a claim without any verses to be shown for it. And there aren't verses for the claim. You speak of probability that is your belief and can't reasonably be pushed on another.

      One singular verse, about the time after Jesus died, when to prove to his disciples that Jesus was now physically alive again, they were asked if they had anything. The original writings we have for having translations say here that they answered they had a fish and honeycomb. These things are not eaten together, I never have and certainly will still never, but if nothing was altered and they did have a fish, it shows they or some of them ate fish still, it does not show Jesus ate fish. I can see Jesus did not directly tell his disciples to not eat meat. But we can know from ancient writing that many of those individual disciples gave up meat afterward, and Jesus lived as an example to them and there was claim Jesus was never eating meat.

      So if nothing was added to that text and they really had those two things, and they gave it to them, and he ate it, which actually suggests there was one thing, you don't have something to say with certainty that Jesus ate fish even on that one occasion, and you have nothing from scripture otherwise to insist that Jesus ate meat otherwise.

    7. #27
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      https://medium.com/sant-mat-meditati...79467953892580

      I’ve heard people say that God created animals for us to eat. Nowhere in the Holy Bible does it say such a thing, but Genesis 2:18-20 tells us precisely why animals were created.

      And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

      God created “every beast of the field and every bird of the air” for Adam so that he would not be alone. They were all created to be a potential helper that was “comparable to him.” God then brought them to Adam and Adam gave “each living creature” a name. Scripture even goes so far as to tell us that “Adam gave names to all the cattle.” These days, animals on factory farms are merely given numbers and not names.
      In the garden of Eden, all animals were meant to be companion animals. In Heaven and the new Earth, all animals will once again be our companions according to Isaiah 11:6-9.

      “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
      The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
      The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
      And a little child shall lead them.
      The cow and the bear shall graze;
      Their young ones shall lie down together;
      And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
      The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
      And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
      They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
      For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
      As the waters cover the sea.

      In the beginning, the world was vegan. In Heaven, there is no pain, bloodshed or death; thus, we shall all be vegan. Jesus told us to pray to God, “Your kingdom come. Your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.” Should we not, therefore, seek to live a life that does not cause harm and destruction or do we pray the Lord’s prayer in vain with empty words and a hardened heart?

      Please consider taking steps toward a life that minimizes cruelty to God’s creatures and honors God’s creation.

      Holise E. Cleveland III
      Last edited by FredVB; 04-27-2019 at 02:37 PM.

    8. Pray RichWh1 prayed
    9. #28
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      God COMMANDED the Israelites to eat lamb in the passover. I don't think God would command people to sin.


      Now, I'm much in favor as being humane in the termination of animal life for food, and I have nothing against people CHOOSING to exclude meat from their diet, only those claiming this is God's will or command or somehow makes them holier.



      Back to the topic?
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    10. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      God COMMANDED the Israelites to eat lamb in the passover. I don't think God would command people to sin.


      Now, I'm much in favor as being humane in the termination of animal life for food, and I have nothing against people CHOOSING to exclude meat from their diet, only those claiming this is God's will or command or somehow makes them holier.

      Back to the topic?
      I was misrepresented as saying God commanded to not have meat or that we don't have it are holier. That is a strawman argument against me.

      You say back to the topic when no others are talking in this otherwise inactive thread, when I had answered a response to my search for a church with criticism to it, and you answer me with what you think should be the last word, to shut me up though there is no activity otherwise that I interfere with. But it isn't the last there is to say about this, that what you have communicated can be answered.

      Interesting that you brought up humane treatment being needed. I don't believe you checked.

      “Factory farm operators believe that the less Americans know about what goes on behind their closed doors, the better for the industry. That’s because the animals sent through those factories often endure an unimaginable amount of mistreatment and abuse.” – New York Times Editorial Board

      “What can you say about a society whose food production must be hidden from public view? In which the factory farms and slaughterhouses supplying much of our diet must be guarded like arsenals to prevent us from seeing what happens there?” – George Monbiot

      The Farm Myth: Fantasy Farms, Factory Farming

      Vita Sleigh, AnimalsAndSociety.org
      March 2019

      The farm myth is created and sustained in three main ways: Romanticization: The books romanticize the reality of farms in a way that is not accurate about the lives of farmed animals. This rosy view of farms can outlast childhood into adulthood, leaving the legacy exploitable by advertisements for animal products. Absence: The absence of suffering or death in the books constitutes deceit by omission. Myth: The ways that inaccuracies are presented as fact, and how this misrepresentation can seamlessly develop into outright lies.

      “It is an indication of the extent to which people are now isolated from the animals they eat that children brought up on storybooks that lead them to think of a farm as a place …[of] …idyllic conditions might be able to live out their entire lives without ever being forced to revise this rosy image” (Singer 1975).

      In the forty years since Singer wrote his landmark book Animal Liberation, a farm myth still persists: a fairy-tale image of farming which is firmly rooted in children’s books about farms. Animal rights organizations have improved quality of footage and technologies with which to show images of farming, dissemination of which has been greatly helped by the rise of social media. As more people understand the truth about factory farming and seek alternatives, rosy perceptions of so-called “high welfare,” “free range,” and “humane” farms are pressed on buyers through the farm myth imagery in advertisements and packaging.

      Children’s books about farms may be for many children their first introduction to conceptualizing animals within a framework of anthropocentrism and objectification. The impact of children’s books about farms is long-lasting: it is a cultural myth which acts as one of many barriers to people finding out, or fully comprehending, the reality of how animals who are (ab)used for food live their lives. For these reasons it is imperative that illustrators, publishers, and writers make a commitment to championing children’s books that do not romanticize or sanitize the farming industry or objectify farmed animals.

      The farm myth is created and sustained in three main ways:

      Romanticization: The books romanticize the reality of farms in a way that is not accurate about the lives of farmed animals. This rosy view of farms can outlast childhood into adulthood, leaving the legacy exploitable by advertisements for animal products.
      Absence: The absence of suffering or death in the books constitutes deceit by omission.
      Myth: The ways that inaccuracies are presented as fact, and how this misrepresentation can seamlessly develop into outright lies.
      The four examples of books about farms have been chosen for the span in suggested reading ages (between four and ten years old). Due to practical limitations, all four examples are written in English and set in Western cultures.

      https://www.care2.com/greenliving/sp...rms-video.html

      https://thehumanitarianchurch.org/
      You can learn a lot about the way others are Christian by how they communicate when they disagree with what you say.

    11. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by FredVB View Post
      I was misrepresented as saying God commanded to not have meat or that we don't have it are holier.

      You didn't note that I didn't direct the post to anyone or any post.



      You say back to the topic when no others are talking in this otherwise inactive thread

      Actually, inactive or inactive has nothing to do with it. It has to do with a post being off-topic (and thus potentially de-railing the discussion).

      Now, it COULD be argued that diet regulations of various denominations is not off topic, and so if a post is in direct response to some dietary prohibitions of a denomination, it would not be off topic (so perhaps we agree) and my comment wouldn't apply (thus the question mark)

      If you conclude the discussion was precisely about dietary prohibitions of various denomination, then, I agree with you - my comment about "back to the topic?" was inappropriate (or at least the question mark was).
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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