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    Christian Theology - Thread: Experiment.

    1. #61
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      This thread is intended as an experiment to see if we can create a discussion in CH that is less composed to quotes from authority sources and more composed of what each contributor thinks themselves even if their thought has been formed by an authority such as a bible (66 book or 73 book or other) People are encouraged to use their own words, avoid lengthy quotes, eschew one liners, be polite, be patient, be scrupulous about reading the post that they are responding to and just make an effort not to treat the other people in the discussion badly.

      What topic shall we start with?

      I suggest something about which we likely have views but not necessarily the same views.

      So, let's start with this.

      How do you deal with bible contradictions and bible atrocities; do you try to reconcile them by carefully constructed explanations of what they mean and do not mean and how that removes the apparent contradiction or the apparent atrocity or do you accept that it is a contradiction and then find a way to preserve your view of the holiness and goodness of God despite the biblical contradictions and atrocities or do you do something else?

      I am choosing this topic because it is interesting, relevant, and likely to generate some heat but hopefully without smoke and without degeneration into mutual anathemas and insult throwing. I think it may be a good experiment because it will tell us as well as others how we will handle controversial matters in other threads and if we can keep civility alive in a heated discussion or if we can't.

      If no one want to participate in the experiment then that tells us something too. I am not sure exactly what it tells me, but I will work it out as things move along or don't.
      Good thread. Somehow I missed this until now.
      If by contradictions you mean that sometimes numbers don't seem to match I do think there are some scribal errors along the way, but they don't take away from the meaning of the text. As far as atrocities, I am thinking of the book of Judges for example and all the bloodletting that happened in that book. I would say that it is just more proof that men are evil and how amazing it is that any of us are saved at all. I think it is just more proof of how evil people can be to each other

    2. #62
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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      Good thread. Somehow I missed this until now.
      If by contradictions you mean that sometimes numbers don't seem to match I do think there are some scribal errors along the way, but they don't take away from the meaning of the text. As far as atrocities, I am thinking of the book of Judges for example and all the bloodletting that happened in that book. I would say that it is just more proof that men are evil and how amazing it is that any of us are saved at all. I think it is just more proof of how evil people can be to each other
      I was thinking of substantial contradictions such as "God is Love" and the description of love's qualities in 1Corinthians 13 as opposed to God flooding the earth to kill everybody except Noah and this three sons and their wives himself and his wife. There's also the commandments about taking slaves from conquered nations and slaves among Israel's poor. Also the annihilation of the Amalekites. These do not fit well with God is Love. The concept of eternal punishment too is hard to fit into "God is Love". But I am sure that people find their own ways to cope with these matters.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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    3. #63
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      I was thinking of substantial contradictions such as "God is Love" and the description of love's qualities in 1Corinthians 13 as opposed to God flooding the earth to kill everybody except Noah and this three sons and their wives himself and his wife. There's also the commandments about taking slaves from conquered nations and slaves among Israel's poor. Also the annihilation of the Amalekites. These do not fit well with God is Love. The concept of eternal punishment too is hard to fit into "God is Love". But I am sure that people find their own ways to cope with these matters.
      Maybe your definition of "Love" is not the same as God's definition of Love when you also take into consideration that God is "just".
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    4. #64
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      Yeah people tend to overlook the God of judgement and justice
      Isaiah 40:31

    5. #65
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Maybe your definition of "Love" is not the same as God's definition of Love when you also take into consideration that God is "just".
      Is saint Paul's definition okay?
      Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends .. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8
      It isn't a faulty definition of love is it; but genocide, vengeance, slavery, rape are not in the definition.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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    6. #66
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Is saint Paul's definition okay?
      Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends .. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8
      It isn't a faulty definition of love is it; but genocide, vengeance, slavery, rape are not in the definition.
      Either you think God isn't loving or you think that those He ordered to die did not deserve it, meaning you don't think God is just.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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    8. #67
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Is saint Paul's definition okay?
      Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends .. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8
      It isn't a faulty definition of love is it; but genocide, vengeance, slavery, rape are not in the definition.
      Do you have a definition of HOLY and JUST that can reconcile with your definition of absolute LOVE for all evil?

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    10. #68
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      How do you deal with bible contradictions and bible atrocities; do you try to reconcile them by carefully constructed explanations of what they mean and do not mean and how that removes the apparent contradiction or the apparent atrocity or do you accept that it is a contradiction and then find a way to preserve your view of the holiness and goodness of God despite the biblical contradictions and atrocities or do you do something else?
      I start out by avoiding anthropomorphizing God. God is not “just like us”. Part of HOLY is being set apart, or “OTHER”.

      [Isa 55:8 NASB] 8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.
      [Eze 18:25, 29 NASB] 25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? ... 29 "But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

      GOD is God and we are not. So it is beneficial to us to attempt to adopt a “God’s POV of the situation and avoid attempting to cram our little ‘gods’ onto a human POV of the situation. Let’s start with the Great Flood that bothers so many. First, does the Creator have a right to destroy his creation? God passed judgement and found all men evil except Noah and his family, so God executed all of the evil men and spared all those he found reason to call righteous. Do you have evidence that God lied? Proof that ‘righteous’ were killed? Last, what terrible thing has God actually done to any man that dies? Everyone dies. Consider [Mat 10:28 NASB] "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

      So what great crime did God commit in the Flood? He saved those He found righteous and all of the rest were called home to judgement. They were heading there anyway. This world really is not our home, we are all bound for a more permanent dwelling. Stop thinking like this life is all there is.

    11. Likes Andrew, psalms 91, Lämmchen liked this post
    12. #69
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Either you think God isn't loving or you think that those He ordered to die did not deserve it, meaning you don't think God is just.
      Or I think that maybe what is written in the bible need not be taken as literally as some folk want to take it. There are many other possible views so the two that you offered are just two in a crowd and - in my opinion - not the best.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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    13. #70
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      Do you have a definition of HOLY and JUST that can reconcile with your definition of absolute LOVE for all evil?
      I was trying to let saint Paul give the operative definition that is why I quoted his praise of love from 1 Corinthians 13.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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