Are Catholics boring catechists?

ImaginaryDay2 · Feb 24, 2019

Are Catholics just about rules, regulations, and (supposed) Marian worship? Or do they get to have occasional fun? Are they like you and me? Do they read the bible for themselves and discern what it says?

Andrew · Feb 24, 2019

ImaginaryDay2 said:
Are Catholics just about rules, regulations, and (supposed) Marian worship? Or do they get to have occasional fun? Are they like you and me? Do they read the bible for themselves and discern what it says?

Depends on if they are truly Catholic or not..?

ImaginaryDay2 · Feb 24, 2019

Andrew said:
Depends on if they are truly Catholic or not..?

Hmmm... Interesting. How do you mean?

Andrew · Feb 24, 2019

ImaginaryDay2 said:
Hmmm... Interesting. How do you mean?

Im just saying that being a strict Catholic comes with a lot of heavy baggage, if I were a bit less then the rules wouldn't matter much. Its either all in or not at all... from what I perceive

Arsenios · Feb 24, 2019

ImaginaryDay2 said:
Are Catholics just about rules, regulations, and (supposed) Marian worship? Or do they get to have occasional fun? Are they like you and me? Do they read the bible for themselves and discern what it says?

Well, I am an Ancient Faith Eastern Catholic and I can tell you that we are not rule-bound legalists worshiping Mary...
And having said that, I can tell you this:
I met a guy who grew up in an eastern block country who was a Roman Catholic...
And when I told him I was Orthodox and asked him if there were many in his country...
He said: "Yes - In the eastern half especially - Full of those HARD CORE ORTHODOX Christians..."
I asked him what he meant by that, and he said:
"They keep the ancient fasts, daily and weekly and throughout the year...
They do the Services of the Church morning and night all the time...
They do all night vigils and sin very little and work and are busy all the time..."

And it is all voluntary...

So over there, with all its legal focus of rules and regulations, the actually practice of the Faith is much more lax in the Latin Church than that of the Slavic EOC... Here as well - The Fasts of the Church are now voluntary for the Latin Church, instead of prescribed, and involve someone denying themselves something they really like for the duration of the fast - iow Fasts are self-prescribed rather than Ecclesiastically prescribed... The Wednesday Fast is all but forgotten for the Latins... And the daily fast from supper to breakFAST is unknown... Let alone the Friday Fast from fish and meats... These are all a part of the Praxis of the Ancient Christian Faith from the beginnings, and are virtually unknown and seem opprobrious to western understandings... The Ancient Faith is very prescribed and regulated, and within it life is very simple and rich in prayer and labors and love... Indeed, it can be seen as the Obedience of Love...

You would think that it would be the reverse, but it is not...

And it is not that the Latin Church does not take its Faith unseriously...

But the Ancient Faith that is Mystically focused in discipling the faithful without myriad rules and legalisms and spelled out catechisms ends up with a much more rigorous phronema of praxis, imo...

Arsenios

MoreCoffee · Feb 25, 2019

ImaginaryDay2 said:
Are Catholics just about rules, regulations, and (supposed) Marian worship? Or do they get to have occasional fun? Are they like you and me? Do they read the bible for themselves and discern what it says?

There are expectations but how many people live up to them?

I have heaps of fun, especially with MennoSota

I'm not like you or "me" whoever "me" is. I'm not different ... I'm not an individual

Albion · Feb 25, 2019

ImaginaryDay2 said:
Are Catholics just about rules, regulations, and (supposed) Marian worship? Or do they get to have occasional fun? Are they like you and me? Do they read the bible for themselves and discern what it says?

Its probably safe to say that they are both of those.

ImaginaryDay2 · Feb 25, 2019

Borrowed from another thread:

MennoSota said:
God has shown me that your church is not in agreement with what He says.

Personal revelation?? Never thought I'd see those words from you. Do you mean that God's word has shown you? How do you know?

MennoSota said:
God has shown me, in His word...

Okay, that's different. But, again, how do you know that it is not personal revelation falsely attributed to God about the Catholic church?

MennoSota said:
...(T)hat He alone can make a person alive with Christ and adopt a person into His family.

I've not met a Catholic who disagrees

MennoSota said:
He has shown me that any righteousness is found only in Christ Jesus and not in self.

Personal revelation aside, I've not met a Catholic who disagrees

MennoSota said:
God's word has been sharper than a two edged sword.

"Has been"?? You're slipping. See below.

MennoSota said:
Hebrews 4:12-13
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

I've not met a Catholic who disagrees.

ImaginaryDay2 · Feb 25, 2019

Arsenios said:
Well, I am an Ancient Faith Eastern Catholic and I can tell you that we are not rule-bound legalists worshiping Mary...
And having said that, I can tell you this:
I met a guy who grew up in an eastern block country who was a Roman Catholic...
And when I told him I was Orthodox and asked him if there were many in his country...
He said: "Yes - In the eastern half especially - Full of those HARD CORE ORTHODOX Christians..."
I asked him what he meant by that, and he said:
"They keep the ancient fasts, daily and weekly and throughout the year...
They do the Services of the Church morning and night all the time...
They do all night vigils and sin very little and work and are busy all the time..."

And it is all voluntary...

So over there, with all its legal focus of rules and regulations, the actually practice of the Faith is much more lax in the Latin Church than that of the Slavic EOC... Here as well - The Fasts of the Church are now voluntary for the Latin Church, instead of prescribed, and involve someone denying themselves something they really like for the duration of the fast - iow Fasts are self-prescribed rather than Ecclesiastically prescribed... The Wednesday Fast is all but forgotten for the Latins... And the daily fast from supper to breakFAST is unknown... Let alone the Friday Fast from fish and meats... These are all a part of the Praxis of the Ancient Christian Faith from the beginnings, and are virtually unknown and seem opprobrious to western understandings... The Ancient Faith is very prescribed and regulated, and within it life is very simple and rich in prayer and labors and love... Indeed, it can be seen as the Obedience of Love...

You would think that it would be the reverse, but it is not...

And it is not that the Latin Church does not take its Faith unseriously...

But the Ancient Faith that is Mystically focused in discipling the faithful without myriad rules and legalisms and spelled out catechisms ends up with a much more rigorous phronema of praxis, imo...

Arsenios

I can understand that. I think what gets ;lost is the very voluntary nature of the acts you've described. One giving oneself to these ways of life are not a simple or prescribed choice, or some directive, but are the choice of the individual. When I went out for my nephew's wedding, the presiding priest was about the same age as my nephew. The priest had grown up with my nephew's wife in that church. He shared a bit about himself, and his decision - it was not something prescribed for him, or a forced choice, but a decision of devotion to Christ and His church. He looked in now way to have regretted it.

MennoSota · Feb 25, 2019

ImaginaryDay2 said:
Borrowed from another thread:

Personal revelation?? Never thought I'd see those words from you. Do you mean that God's word has shown you? How do you know?

Okay, that's different. But, again, how do you know that it is not personal revelation falsely attributed to God about the Catholic church?

I've not met a Catholic who disagrees

Personal revelation aside, I've not met a Catholic who disagrees

"Has been"?? You're slipping. See below.

I've not met a Catholic who disagrees.

The Bible shows the errors of Rome. This is how God has shown me. It is the same way that Luther was shown Rome's errors. It is the same way, Huss and Calvin were shown Rome's errors. They read God's word and God showed them how error filled Rome is.
I find your attempts amusing ID2.

ImaginaryDay2 · Feb 25, 2019

MennoSota said:
The Bible shows the errors of Rome. This is how God has shown me. It is the same way that Luther was shown Rome's errors. It is the same way, Huss and Calvin were shown Rome's errors. They read God's word and God showed them how error filled Rome is.

Imo, what one is "shown" must be verified. You can "show" me a picture of a UFO, but in some cases it can be explained; however, that requires someone to do the explaining. Otherwise, I'm still convinced it's a UFO. Likewise, the bible can "show" me any error it wants if I look, and say "this is how God has shown me". But unless I verify the error with someone who has studied it more than me, I'm relying on self.

MennoSota said:
I find your attempts amusing ID2.

And I, yours. :heheh:

Andrew · Feb 25, 2019

Call no man father

MennoSota · Feb 25, 2019

ImaginaryDay2 said:
Imo, what one is "shown" must be verified. You can "show" me a picture of a UFO, but in some cases it can be explained; however, that requires someone to do the explaining. Otherwise, I'm still convinced it's a UFO. Likewise, the bible can "show" me any error it wants if I look, and say "this is how God has shown me". But unless I verify the error with someone who has studied it more than me, I'm relying on self.

And I, yours. :heheh:

The Bible shows us pretty clearly. It is easy to verify. Do you not believe that the Bible is God's word given to us?

Albion · Feb 25, 2019

Andrew said:
Call no man father

I hate to say it, but that is probably a weak criticism since the Old Testament shows us a number of times when the people of God did refer to some mortal as father--Abraham, for example. And its even more unfortunate if we consider that there is so much else that is wrong with the church of Rome.

Andrew · Feb 25, 2019

Albion said:
I hate to say it, but that is probably a weak criticism since the Old Testament shows us a number of times when the people of God did refer to some mortal as father--Abraham, for example. And its even more unfortunate if we consider that there is so much else that is wrong with the church of Rome.

Yeah I know, I just wonder why it was ever mentioned in the NT if we can just excuse it entirely, seems like a waste of scroll space... they could have had added something meaningful instead...
[emoji52]

Albion · Feb 25, 2019

Well, I think the message was not about the word itself but about not giving to any mortal the regard that belongs exclusively to our heavenly Father.

Andrew · Feb 25, 2019

Albion said:
Well, I think the message was not about the word itself but about not giving to any mortal the regard that belongs exclusively to our heavenly Father.

Well people do kiss the Popes (pappas=father) ring and bow down to him so.. anyway my point is that the NT specifically calls this out yet we 'must' utter "father" when addressing a Catholic priest and we can just roll our eyes and remark "well that's the least of our concern" as if it's nothing of importance, maybe Francis can address this issue and revert back to just calling him the pontifex maximus... I believe it meant "bridge builder"?, better than "Father" imo... but yeah it's always bugged me but I guess i'll just join the 'whatever' camp

ImaginaryDay2 · Feb 25, 2019

Andrew said:
Call no man father

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ (Eph. 4: 11-12)

Andrew · Feb 25, 2019

ImaginaryDay2 said:
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ (Eph. 4: 11-12)

So... we should call them father?
I don't get it. Explain please

MennoSota · Feb 25, 2019

Is boring and ignorant the same thing?
I find most Roman Catholics to be biblically ignorant. In fact, it seems atheists are better informed about the Bible than most Roman Catholics.
That being the case, I find them boring. They don't have a basis for their faith other than saying "father dantas told me to do 5 hail mary's." They sleep walk through their ceremonies and ultimately think the entrance into heaven is to imagine they have done more good than bad so that God will not think poorly of them. Often they are no different than an atheist in that they view life from a pragmatic and utilitarian perspective. Do what is right in their own eyes and justify it to God when they die.
It's tough to have a deep conversation with an ignorant person. Just feed them milk, milk and more milk.

Are Catholics boring catechists?

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