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  • Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ... 8910
    Results 91 to 98 of 98

    Christian Theology - Thread: The Simple Original Apostolic Gospel

    1. #91
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      I'd be interested to see scripture both ways - that Satan coud or could not. The Angels, as created beings, show some agency to follow the commands of God:
      Repentance is toward God in faith for salvation. Sin must be atoned for and Jesus did not die on the cross for the angels or Satan. You've seen the ending already in Revelation of what happens to Satan and his fallen angels. Do you still need scriptural references?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus


      1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

    2. #92
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      Of course scripture shows that Satan DID not - according to the will of God. Revelation bears that out. But I didn't ask if he DID not, but if he "could or could not". If satan had the will to rebel, COULD he (not DID he) have had the will to repent of his deeds?

      And it's not about if I "still need scriptural references". I was asking an honest question in hopes of some discussion.

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    4. #93
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      Of course scripture shows that Satan DID not - according to the will of God. Revelation bears that out. But I didn't ask if he DID not, but if he "could or could not". If satan had the will to rebel, COULD he (not DID he) have had the will to repent of his deeds?

      And it's not about if I "still need scriptural references". I was asking an honest question in hopes of some discussion.
      Repentance is unto Salvation. God never revealed in the holy scriptures any plan for Satan and the fallen angels. He never even suggests that atonement for their sin against Him could happen. So, no, repentance by Satan or his angels could not happen.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus


      1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

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    6. #94
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Repentance is unto Salvation. God never revealed in the holy scriptures any plan for Satan and the fallen angels. He never even suggests that atonement for their sin against Him could happen. So, no, repentance by Satan or his angels could not happen.
      Thank you

    7. #95
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      Most cosmological models show that? If the uncertainty of a process of proton decay, or contraction of the universe after the expansion, is assumed, there would be collapse of the physical universe, that no physical beings would survive. But a process of proton decay is not really known, and the apparent expansion shows no sign of stopping for contraction to happen. And a contracting universe would have no known mechanism for a new universe to rebound from it, there wouldn't be the elasticity at all. There is nothing known for a certainty of collapse of the physical universe being possible.
      To trust that God provides the universe, and also provides for our eternity, is not very compatible with the thinking that this universe must come to an end, even with another made that would somehow be eternal for us when God would not have that for this one in which God made creation in perfection, and with it told for us, as if we need to be told, all creation groans, waiting for the revealing of the redemption, because of him who subjected it in hope.
      Quote Originally Posted by hedrick
      The most likely outcome of continuing expansion is the Big Chill of heat death, both of which I included under collapse.
      That thinking that this universe will come to that is excluding God, God as Creator of everything is certainly with power to keep any of it from coming to that, and since God is appealed to for a whole other universe that would not come to that, there is no great reason to doubt God would restore the creation made in perfection which groans, waiting for the revealing of the redemption, because of him who subjected it in hope, to incorruptibility in this universe really for eternity.
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    8. #96
      hedrick is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by FredVB View Post
      That thinking that this universe will come to that is excluding God, God as Creator of everything is certainly with power to keep any of it from coming to that, and since God is appealed to for a whole other universe that would not come to that, there is no great reason to doubt God would restore the creation made in perfection which groans, waiting for the revealing of the redemption, because of him who subjected it in hope, to incorruptibility in this universe really for eternity.
      Of course. Scientists can only tell you what current processes would produce. God could certainly intervene.

      I wonder, however, whether that's likely. The current universe, the earth, human bodies, etc. all seem designed for finite life. Paul talks about spiritual bodies, and Jesus appeared in a form that could go through walls, etc. It could just as well be that there's a new world as that the current one gets all of its laws changed and key properties of its matter changed. If there's a new creation, then it makes perfect sense that this one would run down and disappear.

    9. #97
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      The most likely outcome of continuing expansion is the Big Chill of heat death, both of which I included under collapse.
      Quote Originally Posted by FredVB View Post
      That thinking that this universe will come to that is excluding God, God as Creator of everything is certainly with power to keep any of it from coming to that, and since God is appealed to for a whole other universe that would not come to that, there is no great reason to doubt God would restore the creation made in perfection which groans, waiting for the revealing of the redemption, because of him who subjected it in hope, to incorruptibility in this universe really for eternity.
      Quote Originally Posted by Hedrick
      Of course. Scientists can only tell you what current processes would produce. God could certainly intervene.

      I wonder, however, whether that's likely. The current universe, the earth, human bodies, etc. all seem designed for finite life. Paul talks about spiritual bodies, and Jesus appeared in a form that could go through walls, etc. It could just as well be that there's a new world as that the current one gets all of its laws changed and key properties of its matter changed. If there's a new creation, then it makes perfect sense that this one would run down and disappear.
      It is likely, and quite certain, as Yahweh God, the perfect Creator, made creation with the perfect design, and the finiteness perceived is since the fall and the curse in creation from our sinful choices, to the creation we are in, in light of what is shown in scriptures, especially in Romans 8:20-21, God would restore the creation made in perfection which groans, waiting for the revealing of the redemption, because of him who subjected it in hope, to incorruptibility. God putting the redeemed in another universe for it when God can renew this one would not let that passage be fulfilled.
      Last edited by FredVB; 01-14-2020 at 12:37 PM.
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      That creation came from God the Creator with perfect design has bearing on our need for a model of living. It was the way things were meant to last, though God was not surprised and took the fall of humanity into sin and the resulting growing curse into account with the plan for redemption with Christ coming always known, and those yet to come who would be in relationship with God through Christ already known. The creation was to always last. Scientists finding models of the universe apart from taking God into account only see what will be shown from this fallen world with the growing curse in creation, the restoration of creation with the redemption all fulfilled is not taken into account, creation will be restored and all the curse is removed with all that is destroyed, and those unregenerated sinners perish remaining eternally with their suffering outside of that restored creation.

      Along with this, that Christians are permitted to have meat from animals is a very loose understanding from Bible passages, that are not really permitting everything. All creation groans under the futility it is in now with expectation waiting for the revealing of the redemption when it will be delivered from the bondage of corruption (Romans 8:19-22). We were certainly to be responsible for creation care.
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