Usury?

NathanH83

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So you're never going to get a car loan or mortgage because you disagree with the concept as a Christian?
It's a sin to charge interest, not to be charged.
 

pinacled

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Usury is condemned in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, Nehemiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah.

But people think Jesus' parable in Luke 19 is saying that Usury is OK.

Thoughts?
Every 7th Yom and yr should be set aside for rest in a house of prayer.

The current mamon system is built with lies upon dept.
The larger the population the larger the GDP

Mamon and Lucifer only consider trade as a tool in form of extortion.
Its an old military tact of starving the opposition and supposed threat.
Hence a 'mark"
 

Lämmchen

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It's a sin to charge interest, not to be charged.
How do you feel about that? Someone you believe sinning to charge you interest?
 

tango

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Oh, I wasn't really meaning the credit or banking system. You do make some good points though. I meant on a more personal basis.

peace

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On a personal basis we can give to meet a specific need. Of course the people who don't accept Scripture as being relevant to their lives aren't going to follow any of its requirements, so there will be many people who ignore it for a variety of reasons.
 

tango

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It's a sin to charge interest, not to be charged.
In which case isn't signing on the dotted line a clear willingness to enable others to sin? The reasoning here sounds a bit like arguing that you can buy a porn movie and send it to a friend and justify it by saying that you aren't the one doing the lusting.
 

tango

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Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy.
Something a little more specific than three entire books would be useful here. If you're looking to make a point, chapter and verse is useful as a baseline rather than a general pointer towards three books.
 

NathanH83

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Something a little more specific than three entire books would be useful here. If you're looking to make a point, chapter and verse is useful as a baseline rather than a general pointer towards three books.
All three of these books condemn the charging of interest.

“If you lend money to My people, to the poor among you, you are not to act as a creditor to him; you shall not charge him interest."
-Exodus 22:25 (NASB)

“You shall not charge interest to your countrymen: interest on money, food, or anything that may be loaned at interest. You may charge interest to a foreigner, but to your countrymen you shall not charge interest, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land which you are about to enter to possess.
-Deuteronomy 23:19-20 (NASB)

KING JAMES VERSION:
"Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:
Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it."
-Deuteronomy 23:19-20 (KJV)

"Do not take usurious interest from him, but revere your God, that your countryman may live with you."
-Leviticus 25:36 (NASB)

“Then he may have a violent son who sheds blood and who does any of these things to a brother (though he himself did not do any of these things), that is, he even eats at the mountain shrines, and defiles his neighbor’s wife, oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore a pledge, but lifts up his eyes to the idols and commits abomination, he lends money on interest and takes increase; will he live? He will not live! He has committed all these abominations, he will surely be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.
-Ezekiel 18:10-13 (NASB)
 

NathanH83

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In which case isn't signing on the dotted line a clear willingness to enable others to sin? The reasoning here sounds a bit like arguing that you can buy a porn movie and send it to a friend and justify it by saying that you aren't the one doing the lusting.
If someone steals my bike out of my garage, then they are the ones who are guilty of stealing, not me. Even if I leave it unlocked, even if I let them steal it, even if I find out who they are and decline to call the cops and press charges, THEY are the ones guilty of stealing, not me.
 

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If someone steals my bike out of my garage, then they are the ones who are guilty of stealing, not me. Even if I leave it unlocked, even if I let them steal it, even if I find out who they are and decline to call the cops and press charges, THEY are the ones guilty of stealing, not me.
That analogy is nowhere even close in comparisons of what happens with a loan. With a loan you're giving your full consent. With a bike stolen it is without your consent.
 

popsthebuilder

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On a personal basis we can give to meet a specific need. Of course the people who don't accept Scripture as being relevant to their lives aren't going to follow any of its requirements, so there will be many people who ignore it for a variety of reasons.
Yes, you have a point.

Good thing the conscience isn't limited to those of us who read the Bible.

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NathanH83

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That analogy is nowhere even close in comparisons of what happens with a loan. With a loan you're giving your full consent. With a bike stolen it is without your consent.

What's consent got to do with it?
God tells his people not to charge interest to the poor among you. Even if the poor consent to it. Even if the poor sign their name on the dotted line.

Does the scripture say, "Don't charge the poor interest without their consent."?

No! It says don't charge them. Period. Consent has nothing to do with it.
 

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What's consent got to do with it?
God tells his people not to charge interest to the poor among you. Even if the poor consent to it. Even if the poor sign their name on the dotted line.

Does the scripture say, "Don't charge the poor interest without their consent."?

No! It says don't charge them. Period. Consent has nothing to do with it.
I'm talking about you going for a mortgage or auto loan and getting charged interest...you're doing that with your consent to be charged. You tried using some analogy of a bike getting stolen but you didn't consent to that so the analogy fails.
 

NathanH83

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I'm talking about you going for a mortgage or auto loan and getting charged interest...you're doing that with your consent to be charged. You tried using some analogy of a bike getting stolen but you didn't consent to that so the analogy fails.

Read the scriptures. It condemns Usury. Even if the borrower agrees to it. The Bible still says that the lender should not charge interest. The only exception is if the borrower is a foreigner. Deuteronomy allows charging a foreigner.
 

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Read the scriptures. It condemns Usury. Even if the borrower agrees to it. The Bible still says that the lender should not charge interest. The only exception is if the borrower is a foreigner. Deuteronomy allows charging a foreigner.
Do you understand how your analogy fails though about the bike?
 

tango

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If someone steals my bike out of my garage, then they are the ones who are guilty of stealing, not me. Even if I leave it unlocked, even if I let them steal it, even if I find out who they are and decline to call the cops and press charges, THEY are the ones guilty of stealing, not me.
That's not the same thing - in your example you are a passive innocent party. A better analogy would be to argue that riding a bike was sinful and you bought someone else a bike to ride, justifying it because you weren't actually doing the riding.
 

NathanH83

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Do you understand how your analogy fails though about the bike?
Do you think I care about the bike analogy?
The point is that Usury is a sin, and many professing Christians who work at banks giving out loans are guilty of sin. They're going to Hell.
 

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Do you think I care about the bike analogy?
The point is that Usury is a sin, and many professing Christians who work at banks giving out loans are guilty of sin. They're going to Hell.
Then don't bring an analogy into it LOL

You honestly believe that those who work at banks are going to hell?
 

NathanH83

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Then don't bring an analogy into it LOL

You honestly believe that those who work at banks are going to hell?
The Bible says that those who put out their money at Usury are going to Hell.
That's not everyone who works at a bank. Obviously the basic tellers are not, neither are the janitors. But those who are giving and approving loans, yes they are guilty. The Bible says they are.
 

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The Bible says that those who put out their money at Usury are going to Hell.
That's not everyone who works at a bank. Obviously the basic tellers are not, neither are the janitors. But those who are giving and approving loans, yes they are guilty. The Bible says they are.
So how does Jesus and the forgiveness won at the cross fit into any of this?
 

NathanH83

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So how does Jesus and the forgiveness won at the cross fit into any of this?
If you don't know then you don't know the gospel. Forgiveness comes when you repent. If you don't repent, you won't be forgiven.
 
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