Limited Atonement Bible Study Part 1 & 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Part 1: The Doctrine of Limited Atonement (8): Scriptural Proofs

Outline and Proofs from the Bible

The overwhelming evidence from Scripture is that Christ came to save a very definite number of people (those given to him by the Father). In this regard, see the following texts:

Matt. 1:21 “And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Matt. 20:28 “… just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

Matt. 26:28 “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

John 10:11, 15 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.”

Acts 13:48 “Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”

Acts 20:28 “Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.”

Rom. 8:32-34 “He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.”

Eph. 5:25-27 “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.”

Heb. 2:17 “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.”

Heb. 9:15, 28 “And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”

Rev. 5:9 “And they sang a new song, saying: You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; for You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.”

The following survey may help you in tracing the purpose and scope of Christ’s saving work.

1. The Bible describes the purpose of Christ’s work as the full salvation of his people (that is, actual salvation, not just the possibility of it):

The Bible tells us that Christ came to actually save sinners, not to allow the success of His work to be determined by sinners.

Matt. 1:21 “And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Luke 19:10 “…for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

II Cor. 5:21 “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

I Peter 3:18 “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit.”

Gal. 1:3-4 “Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father.”

I Tim. 1:15 “This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.”

Titus 2:14 “…who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.”

The death of Christ actually reconciles sinners to God (remember that in each of these passages the author is writing to the Church of true believers).

Romans 5:10 “For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.”

II Cor. 5:18-21 “Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

Eph. 2:15-18 “…having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.”

Col. 1:20-22 “And by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and irreproachable in His sight ….”

Heb. 2:17 “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.”

The death of Christ actually justifies the believer because His shed blood was the propitiation for sin and was acceptable to God. Redemption is the actual setting free from the bondage of sin by the blood of Christ to serve the living God.

Rom. 3:24-25 “…being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed.”

Rom. 5:8-9 “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.”

Rom. 5:18 “Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.”

I Cor. 1:30 “But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God – and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.”

Gal. 2:16 “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

Gal. 3:13 “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree).”

Gal. 4:4-5 “But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.”

Col. 1:13-14 “He has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.”

Heb. 9:12 “Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.”

Heb. 10:14 “For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.”

I Pet. 1:18-19 “Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

I Pet. 2:24 “Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness – by whose stripes you were healed.”

I Jn. 1:7 “But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”

The Doctrine of Limited Atonement (8): Scriptural Proofs - Heidelberg Seminary
 
Last edited:

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Part 2: Continued: The Doctrine of Limited Atonement (8): Scriptural Proofs

Outline and Proofs from the Bible

Regeneration by the Holy Spirit is necessary for us to have true faith, and thereby to be saved. The gift of the Holy Spirit to regenerate and sanctify is actually given to all whom Christ died for.

John 3:3 “Jesus answered and said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Acts 16:14 “Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.”

Eph. 1:13, 14 “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.”

Titus 3:5, 6 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior.”

I Cor. 1:30 “But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God – and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.”

II Thess. 2:13 “But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.”

Heb. 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”

I Pet. 1:2 “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.”

2. There are a number of Bible passages that give us a glimpse of the purpose of Christ in fulfilling the covenant with His Father made before the foundation of the world. In summary, Jesus laid down His life for those whom the Father had “given” to Him. Read John 6:35-40 and John 17 carefully.

3. Jesus is conscious of laying down His life for “His sheep.” Those who are not believers are not “His sheep” (Jn. 10:26).

John 10:24-29 “Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.” (see also John 10:11,14-18 and Matthew 25:31-46)

3. In the High Priestly prayer of Christ, Jesus does not pray for the world in general, but for those who were given to him by his Father.

John 17:2, 6, 9, 11, 12, 24 “As You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.”

4. Christ “justified” those for whom He died (Rom. 5:9). If Christ bore the sins of all men without exception, then all men are justified. If all men are justified, then they receive Christ by faith and are at peace with God (Rom. 5:1). All who are justified are likewise glorified (Rom. 8:30). It is clear from the Bible as well as from the world in which we live that many live and die at enmity with God and are lost eternally. If Christ died for all, then all would be justified, and none would be lost. We see from the Bible and our world that this is not true.



Blog post content is taken from Rev. Paul Treick’s book, Faith of Our Fathers, Living Still: A Study of the Five Points of Calvinism, available for purchase. It is posted with the gracious permission of the author.
 
Last edited:

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,735
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The Doctrine of Limited Atonement (8): Scriptural Proofs

Outline and Proofs from the Bible


Matt. 1:21
“And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.


Matt. 20:28 “… just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.


Matt. 26:28 “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.

If I said that "many cars" are in America, does that prove that ergo some are not?


John 10:11, 15 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.”

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.


Acts 13:48 “Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.

This verse deals with individuals BELIEVING, not Jesus DYING. Red Herring.

Acts 20:28 “Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.”

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.

If I wrote that Bob's Mustang is red, does that prove that's the only color of Mustangs? Obviously not.



Rom. 8:32-34 “He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all

Okay, "ALL" but where is the "NOT" and "ONLY?" Where does it say, "No, NOT all but ONLY some unknown few?"



Eph. 5:25-27 “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.”

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.

If I wrote that Bob drove to work this morning, does that prove no one else did? Saying Jesus died for some subgroup of people does not prove he ergo did not die for any other. Your entire doctine rests on "ONLY". If you argue that the Bible is wrong when it says "all" "everyone" etc. then you need to show the bible at least equally saying, "NO, He did NOT die for all but ONLY for some."



Heb. 2:17 “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.”

Where does it say "for SOME few unknown number of people?" "Only some people?"




Rev. 5:9 “And they sang a new song, saying: You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; for You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.”

Where is "NOT" and "ONLY?"

Why does "every tribe and tongue and people and nation" prove that Jesus did not die for all (as the Bible so often, so clearly, so undeniably states)?

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.


Luke 19:10 “…for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”


So, only a few people were "lost"? Most people didn't need salvation? If the Bible is correct that ALL fell short, then ALL were lost.

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.


II Cor. 5:21 “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.



I Peter 3:18 “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit.”


So you hold that most people ARE just and thus He didn't die for them? How heretical, how unbiblical....

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.




I Tim. 1:15 “This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.”


So, He didn't come for most people because most aren't sinful? How heretical. how unbiblical. There goes Total Depravity....

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.



II Cor. 5:18-21 “Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”


Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.



Heb. 2:17 “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.”

Where is "DIE" "NOT" "SOME" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.



Rom. 5:8-9 “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.”


Well, your position seems to rest on a Pelagian few, that most aren't really so sinful that they need a Savior. If the Bible is correct and ALL are sinful, then what is this verse saying?

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.


The rest of the verses are worse.



.


 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.




Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.




Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.

If I said that "many cars" are in America, does that prove that ergo some are not?




Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.




Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.

This verse deals with individuals BELIEVING, not Jesus DYING. Red Herring.



Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.

If I wrote that Bob's Mustang is red, does that prove that's the only color of Mustangs? Obviously not.





Okay, "ALL" but where is the "NOT" and "ONLY?" Where does it say, "No, NOT all but ONLY some unknown few?"





Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.

If I wrote that Bob drove to work this morning, does that prove no one else did? Saying Jesus died for some subgroup of people does not prove he ergo did not die for any other. Your entire doctine rests on "ONLY". If you argue that the Bible is wrong when it says "all" "everyone" etc. then you need to show the bible at least equally saying, "NO, He did NOT die for all but ONLY for some."





Where does it say "for SOME few unknown number of people?" "Only some people?"






Where is "NOT" and "ONLY?"

Why does "every tribe and tongue and people and nation" prove that Jesus did not die for all (as the Bible so often, so clearly, so undeniably states)?

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.





So, only a few people were "lost"? Most people didn't need salvation? If the Bible is correct that ALL fell short, then ALL were lost.

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.




Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.






So you hold that most people ARE just and thus He didn't die for them? How heretical, how unbiblical....

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.







So, He didn't come for most people because most aren't sinful? How heretical. how unbiblical. There goes Total Depravity....

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.






Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.





Where is "DIE" "NOT" "SOME" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.






Well, your position seems to rest on a Pelagian few, that most aren't really so sinful that they need a Savior. If the Bible is correct and ALL are sinful, then what is this verse saying?

Where is "DIE" "NOT" and "ONLY?"

This doesn't address the horrible invention of Limited Atonement, that Jesus did NOT die for all people as the Bible so often, so obviously, verbatim states but rather ONLY for some unknown few.


The rest of the verses are worse.



.
This is a NO DEBATE section. Please obey the rules.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,735
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Universal Atonement:
The echo of Scriptures that state Jesus died for all, for everyone, for all people.



Just some of the Scriptures that state that:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all"

1 Timothy 2:6 "Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


Limited Atonement:
The insistence that Jesus did NOT die for all but ONLY for some unknown few.


The Scriptures that state that:

None. Crickets.




.
 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
Universal Atonement:
The echo of Scriptures that state Jesus died for all, for everyone, for all people.



Just some of the Scriptures that state that:

1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 1:29 “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people.

2 Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself as a ransom for all"

1 Timothy 2:6 "Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all.


Limited Atonement:
The insistence that Jesus did NOT die for all but ONLY for some unknown few.


The Scriptures that state that:

None. Crickets.




.
No Debate.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,551
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
If I wrote that Bob drove to work this morning, does that prove no one else did? Saying Jesus died for some subgroup of people does not prove he ergo did not die for any other. Your entire doctine rests on "ONLY". If you argue that the Bible is wrong when it says "all" "everyone" etc. then you need to show the bible at least equally saying, "NO, He did NOT die for all but ONLY for some."
That's a valuable--and needed--point. It is similar to the arguments we've read from some members concerning infant baptism.

If and when Jesus or his followers tell people that they need to do X, it is nonsensical for us today to insist that the conversation as recorded in Scripture definitely meant to exclude every other person from the advice.

Well, no, it doesn't.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,735
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
1689Dave said:
If Christ bore the sins of all men without exception, then all men are justified


This quote, which you put in a Bible Study but is not found in the Bible, is a common defends of this horrible invention of a few radical Calvinists. This view is IMPUTED (by eisegesis) INTO texts that say no such thing. It's made up.

And here we find another heresy. Just like the several noted in post #3. The heresy here is that faith is irrelevant, faith has no role in justification, the only factor is the CROSS, if Jesus died for one ergo they are justified regardless if whether they have faith or not, whether they repudiate Christ or trust in Him, no matter, if Christ died for them that's it. It's the elimination of the SOLA FIDE part of personal justification (person), Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide - Soli Deo Gloria.

These radical Calvinists make the same mistake Universalist do (Universalism by the way came out of radical Calvinism). If Christ died for all (TULIP Calvinists - nope; Universalists - yes) THEN the person is justified (faith being moot). This is very unbiblical. Personal faith IS essential. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life." It's not "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son so that whether one trusts/believes/relies in that or not is irrelevant, he has eternal life." Now, Calvinists then shift to Arminism and insist that if one HAS faith, that's THEIR work and thus if one agrees with Scripture that faith matters, they are synergists which of course is desperate silliness - agreeing with Scripture that Christ died for all and faith apprehends that is not synergism since as Scripture also says, faith is the gift and work of God.



.
 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
This quote, which you put in a Bible Study but is not found in the Bible, is a common defends of this horrible invention of a few radical Calvinists. This view is IMPUTED (by eisegesis) INTO texts that say no such thing. It's made up.

And here we find another heresy. Just like the several noted in post #3. The heresy here is that faith is irrelevant, faith has no role in justification, the only factor is the CROSS, if Jesus died for one ergo they are justified regardless if whether they have faith or not, whether they repudiate Christ or trust in Him, no matter, if Christ died for them that's it. It's the elimination of the SOLA FIDE part of personal justification (person), Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide - Soli Deo Gloria.

These radical Calvinists make the same mistake Universalist do (Universalism by the way came out of radical Calvinism). If Christ died for all (TULIP Calvinists - nope; Universalists - yes) THEN the person is justified (faith being moot). This is very unbiblical. Personal faith IS essential. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life." It's not "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son so that whether one trusts/believes/relies in that or not is irrelevant, he has eternal life." Now, Calvinists then shift to Arminism and insist that if one HAS faith, that's THEIR work and thus if one agrees with Scripture that faith matters, they are synergists which of course is desperate silliness - agreeing with Scripture that Christ died for all and faith apprehends that is not synergism since as Scripture also says, faith is the gift and work of God.



.
This is a no-debate area. Post your own version and stop hijacking the thread.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,551
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The heresy here is that faith is irrelevant, faith has no role in justification, the only factor is the CROSS, if Jesus died for one ergo they are justified regardless if whether they have faith or not, whether they repudiate Christ or trust in Him, no matter, if Christ died for them that's it.

That view of the matter, which you correctly say is defective, is one that really does conflict with what the writers of the New Testament epistles had to say about it.

It's not what "justification" means.

To Justify is to acquit a person of having done something wrong. The action means that Christ's righteousness has been credited to those, all of them, who believe in him, to those who could not qualify if the Law of Moses were the standard...but not to those who don't believe in Christ. (Acts of the Apostles 13:39)
 

1689Dave

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2022
Messages
1,871
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
That view of the matter, which you correctly say is defective, is one that really does conflict with what the writers of the New Testament epistles had to say about it.

It's not what "justification" means.

To Justify is to acquit a person of having done something wrong. The action means that Christ's righteousness has been credited to those, all of them, who believe in him, to those who could not qualify if the Law of Moses were the standard...but not to those who don't believe in Christ. (Acts of the Apostles 13:39)
This is a no-debate area. Please follow the rules
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
31,689
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Closing this thread since there is no debate in the Bible Study section of this site. If others have a separate bible study on the subject they'd like to post, they are welcome to do so.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom