Non denominational churches

Albion

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I always wondered why Catholic means Universal
It doesn't mean universal in the geographical sense. That's why people get confused by the word. It means something closer to authentic, i.e. true under all circumstances.
 

psalms 91

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It doesn't mean universal in the geographical sense. That's why people get confused by the word. It means something closer to authentic, i.e. true under all circumstances.
That is a lot closer to how Catholics really view it. Anything that is not their church is heathen. At least that is how I see them viewing us protestants
 

Andrew

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It doesn't mean universal in the geographical sense. That's why people get confused by the word. It means something closer to authentic, i.e. true under all circumstances.
Times are a changing tho...

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MoreCoffee

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That is a lot closer to how Catholics really view it. Anything that is not their church is heathen. At least that is how I see them viewing us protestants
You see it unclearly [MENTION=43]psalms 91[/MENTION] The Catholic Church teaches this about protestants

Catechism of the Catholic Church - section 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptised who are honoured by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptised are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."​
 

psalms 91

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Thank you MC, that is a view I can accept as every church views others as incorrect or incomplete but is that how the people really feel is my only question. I apologize for what I said as I know that it hurt.
 

MoreCoffee

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Thank you MC, that is a view I can accept as every church views others as incorrect or incomplete but is that how the people really feel is my only question. I apologize for what I said as I know that it hurt.

Thank you [MENTION=43]psalms 91[/MENTION]. You did not hurt my feelings. My concern is for the truth. The short passage from the Catechism of the Catholic Church is what the Catholic Church teaches. What an individual Catholic may believe may be different. People often have opinions that are not quite right. If you've been told that Protestants are bound for hell by some individual Catholic then be assured that such is not what Catholics are taught to believe. For several centuries Catholics have been taught to believe that people from the protestant churches are "separated brethren" by which it is acknowledged that they are brethren in Christ yet separated from full communion in the Catholic Church. That is simply a fact is it not? You and my Lutheran friends here on CH and all the others here on CH who profess Christ are my brothers and sisters in Christ yet you and they are separated from full communion in the Catholic Church if they are not members of the Catholic Church. Whatever reasons exist for the separation the fact remains that the Catholic Church teaches and has taught for centuries that people from the protestant churches are in Christ and members of his body. Catholics do not teach that people are hell bound because they are from a protestant denomination.
 

Josiah

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I think warm and fuzzy is nice.... and I'm kind of warm and fuzzy myself when it comes to my brothers and sisters in Christ. My theology of the church permits that.

On the other hand, I preferred the earlier Popes who clearly said, "Non-Catholics are wrong about some stuff." Without all this implied relativism, Kum-by-yah - ism, Mr. Roger's Neighborhood stuff, all this kissing of the Koran but ignoring the Augsburg and Westminster Confessions, all this "many roads to heaven" stuff.

I think the Pope is wrong about some stuff. Not a lot of stuff, nothing that remotely will keep him out of Heaven, nothing that remotely makes him a heretic - but wrong about some stuff. I still love him as a full, unseparated brother in Christ with whom I'll be spending eternity in Heaven because of the Blood of the Lamb - but wrong about some stuff. It's okay, when he gets to Heaven Jesus will make a Lutheran out of him. I can wait for that.


I think we can end the HATE and discrimination and (literal) wars and shouts of "You need to get saved!" and all the perpetual FALSEHOODS that get shouted on both sides.... yet admit the obvious: We don't agree on EVERYTHING. I can live with that. Heck, I don't agree with myself on everything. We SHOULD discuss what separates us - I'm VERY much in favor of that, and I don't think we do that NEARLY enough - but I'm honest enough to realize we probably won't all ever agree with all until we get to Heaven and Jesus makes Lutherans of everyone. Our brains are puny and fallen - that we don't all articulate our human attempts to wrap our brains around the Mysteries of God honestly doesn't surprise me. Meanwhile..... I love Catholics, affirm them as my full, unseparated, in-every-way equal and equally blessed Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Just wrong about some stuff (then again, it could be I'm wrong about some stuff, too, LOL)



- Josiah
 

Andrew

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I think warm and fuzzy is nice.... and I'm kind of warm and fuzzy myself when it comes to my brothers and sisters in Christ. My theology of the church permits that.

On the other hand, I preferred the earlier Popes who clearly said, "Non-Catholics are wrong about some stuff." Without all this implied relativism, Kum-by-yah - ism, Mr. Roger's Neighborhood stuff, all this kissing of the Koran but ignoring the Augsburg and Westminster Confessions, all this "many roads to heaven" stuff.

I think the Pope is wrong about some stuff. Not a lot of stuff, nothing that remotely will keep him out of Heaven, nothing that remotely makes him a heretic - but wrong about some stuff. I still love him as a full, unseparated brother in Christ with whom I'll be spending eternity in Heaven because of the Blood of the Lamb - but wrong about some stuff. It's okay, when he gets to Heaven Jesus will make a Lutheran out of him. I can wait for that.


I think we can end the HATE and discrimination and (literal) wars and shouts of "You need to get saved!" and all the perpetual FALSEHOODS that get shouted on both sides.... yet admit the obvious: We don't agree on EVERYTHING. I can live with that. Heck, I don't agree with myself on everything. We SHOULD discuss what separates us - I'm VERY much in favor of that, and I don't think we do that NEARLY enough - but I'm honest enough to realize we probably won't all ever agree with all until we get to Heaven and Jesus makes Lutherans of everyone. Our brains are puny and fallen - that we don't all articulate our human attempts to wrap our brains around the Mysteries of God honestly doesn't surprise me. Meanwhile..... I love Catholics, affirm them as my full, unseparated, in-every-way equal and equally blessed Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Just wrong about some stuff (then again, it could be I'm wrong about some stuff, too, LOL)



- Josiah
lol, I laughed everytime you said we will all be Lutherans in Heaven.


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MoreCoffee

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lol, I laughed everytime you said we will all be Lutherans in Heaven.


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Lutherans are not non-denominational. It seems as if the non-denominational folk are not getting much of a chance to discuss their own movement.
 

Andrew

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Lutherans are not non-denominational. It seems as if the non-denominational folk are not getting much of a chance to discuss their own movement.
I still have no idea what non-denominationalism is or even IF it is, why not just call yourself Christian?
I believe because Christianity is so old and widespread and huge, that its just human nature that we would have different​..lets say emphasis or perceptions of the NT, even the four gospels have many contradictions to each other but for good reason (read Cold Case Christianity). I believe Jesus saw this coming hence his calling his elect, those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.



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MoreCoffee

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I still have no idea what non-denominationalism is or even IF it is, why not just call yourself Christian?
I believe because Christianity is so old and widespread and huge, that its just human nature that we would have different​..lets say emphasis or perceptions of the NT, even the four gospels have many contradictions to each other but for good reason (read Cold Case Christianity). I believe Jesus saw this coming hence his calling his elect, those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.
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Mostly it looks like non-denominational congregations are break aways from denominations or from other non-denominational congregations but some are missionary efforts by other non-denominational congregations.
 

Andrew

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Nvrmnd
 
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Andrew

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Mostly it looks like non-denominational congregations are break aways from denominations or from other non-denominational congregations but some are missionary efforts by other non-denominational congregations.
I see [emoji102]

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MennoSota

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A nondenominational church is simply a local church that is not supported or controlled by a bigger organization. It is free to act as it sees fit regarding theology.
This, of course means that some are very sound in their theology while others are cults who are ruled by their leadership (sort of mini versions of the Roman church).
Calvary Undenominational Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan is an example of a really solid church. Mars Hill in Grand Rapids is an example of a really bad church in Grand Rapids.
 

Albion

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I still have no idea what non-denominationalism is or even IF it is, why not just call yourself Christian?
Because "Christian" describes us all. But when it comes to identifying oneself by denomination, what does the person who is part of an independent congregation, or chooses to belong to no church at all, say to describe that status? It appears that they like the term "hon-denominational" even though it says next to nothing about doctrine or practice, unlike "Catholic" or "Pentecostal" etc. On the other hand, almost all "non-denominational" churches are essentially Baptist, sometimes with a Pentecostal flair in addition, so we do actually have a good idea of what any of them probably is like, even while they use the term "non-denominational."
 

user1234

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Isn't it a bit arrogant and presumptuous to assume 'we're all christians' or 'brothers and sisters in Christ'? Based on what? How is everyone here a 'christian'? How does a person become 'in Christ'?
 

George

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He implies we all worship the same God just as non denominational churches do, or at least my friend does.

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At least it's not the statement that Christians, Muslims, and Hindu's worship the same god that I've heard. Not sure how people can say Christians and Muslims worship the same god.
 

user1234

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At least it's not the statement that Christians, Muslims, and Hindu's worship the same god that I've heard. Not sure how people can say Christians and Muslims worship the same god.
They dont. True christians worship the true and living God and Saviour Jesus Christ. Muslums worship (or are in submission to) a false god and a false prophet. (I hesitate to call it worship)

Hi, George ...long time no see. Hope all is well with you. :wave:
 

Albion

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Isn't it a bit arrogant and presumptuous to assume 'we're all christians' or 'brothers and sisters in Christ'? Based on what? How is everyone here a 'christian'? How does a person become 'in Christ'?
Don't work so hard to make something out of nothing. The language isn't your enemy.
 

Josiah

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[MENTION=333]Snerfle[/MENTION]


Not all will agree with me here..... but I'll share MY perspective..... IF you care to read it.....


There are two main ways people use the term "Christian" to refer to people.....

1. A person who has been given the divine gift of faith and thus trusts/relies in Christ as Savior.
2. A person who professes a certain corpus of doctrines/teaches and/or behaves in ways considered to be "Christian."


MOST Christians (including me) usually use the first as our definition of who IS a Christian - their IDENTITY. The second may be seen as "fruits" that PERHAPS helps to reveal such (never perfectly since even the best of Christians still sin, still have doubts and certianly CAN be wrong about something) but an indication. The first has to do with who a Christian IS, the second with what a Christian (should!) DO and PROFESS.



Snerfle, of course, the first is not objectively observable. When we are given faith, we don't grow 5 feet or get pink hair or even a visible halo over our heads. So, how can we KNOW that someone is a Christian? Objectively, perfectly - we can't. Which is why Jesus tells us to just gather fish - haul them ALL in - and let Jesus sort it all out on Judgement Day; Jesus can see into people's hearts, NO HUMAN can. In the Church, we tend to take Jesus and people both "at their word." If someone says "I believe" we tend to believe them. EVEN if they commit some sin! EVEN if WE think they are wrong about some bit of theology! And of course remember: Satan himself knows theology perfectly - a Buddhist can live well. In neither case is it possible for another to KNOW in any objective and perfect way. God knows.



Snerfle, I believe we should be "evangelical" or "open" about embracing who is and is not a brother or sister in Christ, slow to burn others at the stake, slow with the torchure rakes in inquistions. I think it's likely better to love and embrace one who may (unknowingly to themselves) not actually BE a Christian than to hate, repudiate and excommunicate one whom God has chosen, redeemed and forgiven - but is struggling in thought an deed (as ALL Christians DO to some extent). God is able to sort this all out. God knows who are His own.




You may disagree. Some here at CH do.



- Josiah
 
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