The message of the Prayer of Manasseh

atpollard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
2,573
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
“ who hast made heaven and earth, with all the ornament thereof; who hast bound the sea by the word of thy commandment; who hast shut up the deep, and sealed it by thy terrible and glorious name”
  • [2Ch 2:12 NASB] 12 Then Huram continued, "Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, who has made heaven and earth, who has given King David a wise son, endowed with discretion and understanding, who will build a house for the LORD and a royal palace for himself.
  • [Jer 5:22 NASB] 22 'Do you not fear Me?' declares the LORD. 'Do you not tremble in My presence? For I have placed the sand as a boundary for the sea, An eternal decree, so it cannot cross over it. Though the waves toss, yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot cross over it.
I was not able to find any reference to the Name of the LORD as a “terrible” thing ... something to be dreaded.
Perhaps someone knows of a fear of the NAME of the Lord (terrible fear rather than reverential respect).
 

atpollard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
2,573
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
“ whom all men fear, and tremble before thy power”
  • [Exo 9:30 NASB] 30 "But as for you and your servants, I know that you do not yet fear the LORD God."
ALL men do not fear the LORD, but I suspect that all men tremble before His power.
(We will chalk this up to hyperbole rather than a theological error. The Psalms are full of exaggerations as well.)
 

atpollard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
2,573
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
“ for the majesty of thy glory cannot be borne, and thine angry threatening toward sinners is importable”
  • [Deuteronomy 5:24-26 NASB] 24 "You said, 'Behold, the LORD our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire; we have seen today that God speaks with man, yet he lives. 25 'Now then why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any longer, then we will die. 26 'For who is there of all flesh who has heard the voice of the living God speaking from the midst of the fire, as we [have,] and lived?

Importable:
1. To bring or carry in from an outside source, especially to bring in (goods or materials) from a foreign country for trade or sale.
2. Computers To receive (data) into one program from another.
3.
a. To carry or hold the meaning of; signify: had trouble understanding what the strange word imported.
b. To express or make known: the news imported by their letter.
c. To betoken or indicate: a high inflation rate importing hard times for the consumer.

The prayer is just a little unclear ... two thumbs down for you KJV-only types, because THIS is what is wrong with reading archaic English translations.
So SOMETHING about “angry threatening towards sinners” ... which is biblical.

[Isaiah 13:9 NASB] 9 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it.
 

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
39
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
[MENTION=334]atpollard[/MENTION] very impressive!
Yes even the devils tremble in the presence of God, the day of judgment is a GREAT and TERRIBLE day to come.. Jesus tells us that everyone alive and dead will hear his voice.. as Christians we like Adam, came to Him first in fear and trembling, and unlike Adam we humbled ourselves, confessed and repented our sins and are forgiven, having tasted the good fruit we are entrusted and comforted in life everlasting through Christ Jesus.

As a former atheist I mocked and taunted Christians and "their god", but when I felt the Lords presence I indeed fell on my knees in terror and tears pleading for mercy and guidance.

How did Manasseh feel toward God when he was thick in idolatry sitting on the throne as king over Judah? Probably completely numb, it wasn't until he was taken into captivity and lost his throne that he pleaded to God in fear and trembling for mercy, he wasn't expecting to be handed his throne in return like some superstition through vain reputation of some prayer to another god .. He KNEW God was the only God thus he repented completely of all his idolatry and gods he worshiped because he felt convicted for it so God was indeed "Terrible" and "Just" because Manasseh feared Him with great reverence as the Most High and Merciful, not that God is a terrible God but that he is to be feared for his the final and only Judge
 
Last edited:

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,677
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
How did Manasseh feel toward God when he was thick in idolatry sitting on the throne as king over Judah? Probably ....


Friend, how Manesseh may or may not as felt has nothing whatsoever to do with this book ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


His prayer may be profound.... may be inspirational.... may be a model..... but that has nothing whatsoever to do with this book ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


I remember reading what Mother Teresa said to President Bill Clinton about abortion. POWERFUL, true, inspirational stuff!!!!! But that has nothing to do with her words ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans. Friend, there are ZILLIONS of good prayers out there.... THOUSANDS of GREAT books out there.... SO many wonderful sermons out there..... No one questions that! But that has nothing to do with their books ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


Unlike the Council of Trent, unlike the modern Catholic Church, Luther included this book in his translation. You may have a "beef" with the Catholic Church and with Reformed and "Evangelical" churches... and with a LOT of publishing houses that for business reasons don't include it in their various tomes with "BIBLE" on the cover, however. But my tome has all kinds of things - maps, notes, concordance, etc. included in the tome that I doubt the publisher (CHP) holds are the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


Blessings on your Epiphany season...


- Josiah





.




.
 

atpollard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
2,573
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Friend, how Manesseh may or may not as felt has nothing whatsoever to do with this book ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


His prayer may be profound.... may be inspirational.... may be a model..... but that has nothing whatsoever to do with this book ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


I remember reading what Mother Teresa said to President Bill Clinton about abortion. POWERFUL, true, inspirational stuff!!!!! But that has nothing to do with her words ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans. Friend, there are ZILLIONS of good prayers out there.... THOUSANDS of GREAT books out there.... SO many wonderful sermons out there..... No one questions that! But that has nothing to do with their books ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


Unlike the Council of Trent, unlike the modern Catholic Church, Luther included this book in his translation. You may have a "beef" with the Catholic Church and with Reformed and "Evangelical" churches... and with a LOT of publishing houses that for business reasons don't include it in their various tomes with "BIBLE" on the cover, however. But my tome has all kinds of things - maps, notes, concordance, etc. included in the tome that I doubt the publisher (CHP) holds are the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.

Blessings on your Epiphany season...

- Josiah

Respectfully, you have missed the point. There is already another topic dedicated to the question of the status of the books beyond the 66 universally agreed upon by Christiandom and THIS is not that topic. This is a topic specifically to critically examine any merit or theological difficulties presented within the Prayer of Manasseh (irrespective of its status).

So the question is, do you have anything to say about THIS topic?
Do you have any opinions on the actual content of the Prayer of Manasseh?
Do you have any exegetical insight to share?
 
Last edited:

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
39
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Friend, how Manesseh may or may not as felt has nothing whatsoever to do with this book ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


His prayer may be profound.... may be inspirational.... may be a model..... but that has nothing whatsoever to do with this book ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


I remember reading what Mother Teresa said to President Bill Clinton about abortion. POWERFUL, true, inspirational stuff!!!!! But that has nothing to do with her words ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans. Friend, there are ZILLIONS of good prayers out there.... THOUSANDS of GREAT books out there.... SO many wonderful sermons out there..... No one questions that! But that has nothing to do with their books ergo being the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


Unlike the Council of Trent, unlike the modern Catholic Church, Luther included this book in his translation. You may have a "beef" with the Catholic Church and with Reformed and "Evangelical" churches... and with a LOT of publishing houses that for business reasons don't include it in their various tomes with "BIBLE" on the cover, however. But my tome has all kinds of things - maps, notes, concordance, etc. included in the tome that I doubt the publisher (CHP) holds are the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and therefore the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.


Blessings on your Epiphany season...


- Josiah





.




.

And you are certain of this how?
Kings and Chronicles both say Manasseh prayed repentance and God forgave and blessed him, the prayer in both books says it was recorded by the seers, the exegesis of the prayer is what our topic is about, if it truly lines up.. but you are 100% certain that even if this was the recorded prayer of Manasseh, that it wasn't inspired by God... who forgave him.. regardless I agree with atpollard that this is an exegesis topic, if you are not sure what that word means well.. it simply means that the scripture backs it up and vice versa..
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,677
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Kings and Chronicles both say Manasseh prayed repentance and God forgave and blessed him, the prayer in both books says it was recorded by the seers


1. And you are positive that record is what we now have as the book of the Prayer of Manasseh? If so, how?


2. And you are positive that the prayer of this man THEREFORE must, MUST, be the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and THUS the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans? If so, how?



Friend, I suspect there are millions of written prayers that are profound, inspiring and theologically fine.... doesn't mean ergo the tome containing it is the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and THUS the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,208
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Are we now saying that the bible and what is in it is not the Word of God? Slippery slope this
 

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
39
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Are we now saying that the bible and what is in it is not the Word of God? Slippery slope this
It was in the early bibles and some EO churches still have it as canon in their Holy Bible
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,677
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Are we now saying that the bible and what is in it is not the Word of God? Slippery slope this


[MENTION=43]psalms 91[/MENTION]


Define the content of BIBLE. Remember: the word "Bible" simply means "books" and simply refers to a LIBRARY. Libraries often contain different kinds of books. In many such tomes, even today, you may find notes, maps, chronolgies, commentaries, concordances, etc. If they are in a tome with the word BIBLE on the cover, are they THUS the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans? OR are you referring to 66 books that by solid, ecumenical consensus are considered so? Does "BIBLE" include Paul's Epistle to the Leodiceans? It was IN many Bibles for over 1000 years. This is the book "Luther ripped out of the New Testament" as some Catholics still whine about (not realizing their denomination didn't mention it at Florence or Trent... although it didn't come out of Catholic tomes until the 1700's). Does it include Psalm 151? Does it include Odes? Does it include the Didache? Does it include 1 Clement or the Revelation of St. Peter, all of which were included in some Bibles?


None here denies that there are 66 books that are the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans. But of course there are MILLIONS of other religious books out there ... some contain accurate history and sound theology, some are inspirational and informational, some are USEFUL for good things, some are quoted a LOT by Christians for many centuries, BUT (consider the question) does THAT per se mean ERGO those millions are it MUST be the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans, OR does it simply mean there are good Christian books - informational, inspirational, helpful - that are NOT it MUST be the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans? THAT, Bill, is the issue.




.
 

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
39
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
1. And you are positive that record is what we now have as the book of the Prayer of Manasseh? If so, how?


2. And you are positive that the prayer of this man THEREFORE must, MUST, be the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and THUS the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans? If so, how?



Friend, I suspect there are millions of written prayers that are profound, inspiring and theologically fine.... doesn't mean ergo the tome containing it is the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God and THUS the canon/rule/norm for faith and practice equal to the Five Books of Moses and the Epistle to the Romans.

List for me the complete OT canon that ante nicene Christians held as scripture.
The Septuagint is the closest we have to any idea of what they held true.
300 plus quotes from the 1rst, 2nd and 3rd Century Christians confirm which books they read, this prayer was included in their greek Septuagint quotes.. this thread is about exegesis of this prayer, you obviously find favor in it's content concerning it's exegesis, if I am mistaken then please point out what verse or passage in the prayer you find goes against OT doctrine and explain your reason.

As atpollard put it "regardless of it's status"
 

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
39
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
[MENTION=43]psalms 91[/MENTION]


Define the content of BIBLE. Remember: the word "Bible" simply means "books" and simply refers to a LIBRARY. Libraries often contain different kinds of books. In many such tomes, even today, you may find notes, maps, chronolgies, commentaries, concordances, etc. If they are in a tome with the word BIBLE on the cover, are they THUS the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans? OR are you referring to 66 books that by solid, ecumenical consensus are considered so? Does "BIBLE" include Paul's Epistle to the Leodiceans? It was IN many Bibles for over 1000 years. This is the book "Luther ripped out of the New Testament" as some Catholics still whine about (not realizing their denomination didn't mention it at Florence or Trent... although it didn't come out of Catholic tomes until the 1700's). Does it include Psalm 151? Does it include Odes? Does it include the Didache? Does it include 1 Clement or the Revelation of St. Peter, all of which were included in some Bibles?


None here denies that there are 66 books that are the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans. But of course there are MILLIONS of other religious books out there ... some contain accurate history and sound theology, some are inspirational and informational, some are USEFUL for good things, some are quoted a LOT by Christians for many centuries, BUT (consider the question) does THAT per se mean ERGO those millions are it MUST be the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans, OR does it simply mean there are good Christian books - informational, inspirational, helpful - that are NOT it MUST be the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans? THAT, Bill, is the issue.




.
You and I have no say in what is canon or not, neither did the ante nicene Church fathers, technically it is NOT "canon" in ones Holy Bible and technically it IS "canon" in another Christian's Holy Bible.
You seem to look at it as 'one or the other is either taking away from the Holy Bible or adding to it', I'm fine with compromising and labeling the difference as "Apocrypha" but why is it so important to you to derail this thread and debate what's canon and what's not?

Luther not only included this prayer in his translation but also in his personal prayer book..

Here's a snippet of one of his commentaries on Genesis, notice that in the end of this quote from his writings, Martin Luther says that "Manasseh in HIS prayer expresses it thus.. (He then quotes from the prayer of Manessah)"
Luther confirms just like the early Christians did -by comparing it with other scriptures (exegesis)- that this IS the prayer Manasseh prayed..

"And Cain said to the Lord: My iniquity is too great to be forgiven.

Here Moses appears to have introduced a perplexing difficulty for the linguists and the rabbis, for they torture this passage in various ways. Lyra mentions the opinions of some who explain the words as an affirmation, namely, that Cain, in his despair, said that his sin was too great to be forgiven, just as we also translate it. Augustine, too, adheres to this opinion. “Cain,” says he, “you lie. For God’s mercy is greater than the misery of all sinners.”

But the rabbis explain this as a question and in a negative sense: “My iniquity is not too great to be forgiven, is it?” But if this is the true meaning, Cain not only did not acknowledge his sin but even excused it and reproached God for inflicting a greater punishment than he deserved. In like manner, the rabbis distort the meaning of Scripture almost everywhere.

The reason for their going astray is that they are indeed familiar with the language but have no knowledge of the subject matter; that is, they are not theologians. Therefore they are compelled to twaddle and to crucify both themselves and Scripture. How is it possible to judge correctly about things that are unknown? The main thought in this passage is that Cain is being accused by his conscience. But there is no one—including not only any wicked person but even the devil himself—who would be able to endure this judgment.Thus James, in chapter two, declares that even the devils tremble in the presence of God (v. 19). And Peter, in his second epistle, chapter two, says that not even the angels, although they are greater in power and might, are able to endure the judgment which the Lord will bring upon those who blaspheme (v. 11). Manasseh, in his prayer, expresses it thus: “All men tremble before His wrathful face.” [LW 1:296]"
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,208
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
[MENTION=43]psalms 91[/MENTION]


Define the content of BIBLE. Remember: the word "Bible" simply means "books" and simply refers to a LIBRARY. Libraries often contain different kinds of books. In many such tomes, even today, you may find notes, maps, chronolgies, commentaries, concordances, etc. If they are in a tome with the word BIBLE on the cover, are they THUS the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans? OR are you referring to 66 books that by solid, ecumenical consensus are considered so? Does "BIBLE" include Paul's Epistle to the Leodiceans? It was IN many Bibles for over 1000 years. This is the book "Luther ripped out of the New Testament" as some Catholics still whine about (not realizing their denomination didn't mention it at Florence or Trent... although it didn't come out of Catholic tomes until the 1700's). Does it include Psalm 151? Does it include Odes? Does it include the Didache? Does it include 1 Clement or the Revelation of St. Peter, all of which were included in some Bibles?


None here denies that there are 66 books that are the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans. But of course there are MILLIONS of other religious books out there ... some contain accurate history and sound theology, some are inspirational and informational, some are USEFUL for good things, some are quoted a LOT by Christians for many centuries, BUT (consider the question) does THAT per se mean ERGO those millions are it MUST be the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans, OR does it simply mean there are good Christian books - informational, inspirational, helpful - that are NOT it MUST be the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans? THAT, Bill, is the issue.




.

You trust in the leading of God with men and His guidance in writing or you dont. I trust God and I trust the Bible is His word. If you do not fine but to cast doubt on it to believers is trying to sow doubt, I think there is a word for that. You trust what you trust and I will treust the book we call a bible as Gods word.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,677
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah said:


Define the content of BIBLE. Remember: the word "Bible" simply means "books" and simply refers to a LIBRARY. Libraries often contain different kinds of books. In many such tomes, even today, you may find notes, maps, chronolgies, commentaries, concordances, etc. If they are in a tome with the word BIBLE on the cover, are they THUS the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans? OR are you referring to 66 books that by solid, ecumenical consensus are considered so? Does "BIBLE" include Paul's Epistle to the Leodiceans? It was IN many Bibles for over 1000 years. This is the book "Luther ripped out of the New Testament" as some Catholics still whine about (not realizing their denomination didn't mention it at Florence or Trent... although it didn't come out of Catholic tomes until the 1700's). Does it include Psalm 151? Does it include Odes? Does it include the Didache? Does it include 1 Clement or the Revelation of St. Peter, all of which were included in some Bibles?


None here denies that there are 66 books that are the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans. But of course there are MILLIONS of other religious books out there ... some contain accurate history and sound theology, some are inspirational and informational, some are USEFUL for good things, some are quoted a LOT by Christians for many centuries, BUT (consider the question) does THAT per se mean ERGO those millions are it MUST be the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans, OR does it simply mean there are good Christian books - informational, inspirational, helpful - that are NOT it MUST be the inerrant, verbally-inspired, inscripturated words of God Himself and therefore the canon/rule/norm or faith and practice equal to say the Five Books of Moses or the Epistle to the Romans? THAT, Bill, is the issue.




.



I trust God and I trust the Bible is His word.



NO ONE here at CH has disagreed with that (certainly not me). There's never been a thread challenging that (or affirming that) here at CH. That's not the issue here (or anywhere at this website).

The issue is the CONTENT of that tome; WHICH Bible? Read the post you responded to.


Blessings!


Josiah





.
 
Top Bottom