reasons to leave a church

When they start bashing other churches, that's when I left my last church.

jsimms435 said:

What do you think are legitimate reasons to leave a church you are a member of?

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Persistent teaching of false doctrine.

The defense of willful, persistent behavior that is clearly condemned in the Bible.

Moved away.


But I'd be careful about the first two. The problem is more likely to be with the one in the mirror, so proceed with humility and care. And if distance is a problem, I'd seek a church of the same denomination closer to home.

1) False teaching
2) Unwillingness of the shepherds to discipline blatant disobedience against God by members. (I left a church because the deacons and pastor refused to discipline their worship leader who was living in sin with another person and was addicted to cocaine. She was the pastor's daughter and he felt she needed her worship position to keep from falling deeper into sin.)

False doctrine would be the biggest reason for me to go elsewhere.

Was blessed to be a member/deacon/elder/teacher in a sound fellowship for 20 years, until the Pastor finally retired at the age of 94 from the church he lead since 1976.

The church I am involved with now is part of a denomination which believes and preaches theology that I do not find in the Scripture, but the people love Jesus and many are living the life even though they may mentally hold to the modern "traditions of man." And they've allowed and invited me to teach there for many years such things as I present here in this Forum and on my website, without great rebuke. The Pastors may not fully understand, but they cannot argue with the great bulk of Scripture which supports what I teach. If that door were shut, I would probably begin to seek fellowship and communion elsewhere.
And the Pastors of my current church stand in accord with the Word regarding marriage, baptism and repentance from sin. We've lost possible congregants because our Pastor wouldn't baptize a couple living together who weren't married, and also confronted a member of the worship team who had not disclose that he was a registered sex offender having abused minors in his past. The individual was dismissed from the worship team, but told he could remain in the assembly to hear God's Word and demonstrate true repentance.

So, yes, it is mainly doctrines that make any provision for sin in the professing "believer" that give me pause and will drive me out of an assembly.

jsimms435 said:

What do you think are legitimate reasons to leave a church you are a member of?

I wasn't a member there, but a consistent attender when the church I was at a few years ago was using some secular music during the service and also playing it before and after the service. I told the pastor I didn't think I could support a church that did that and left. I have also left the church I was previously a member of in part due to the fact that I couldn't find a place to serve there. I also felt like the church was not welcoming.

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Personally I wouldn't leave a church over the use of secular music unless it was clearly inappropriate to play in church (sexually suggestive, satanic lyrics etc). I might ask whoever was responsible why they chose it rather than music with a more Christian theme, and if they were playing something like "Blasphemy" by the death metal band Morbid Angel I'd be making much more agitated noises about why it was in church - unless there was a very good reason why it was needed (and I can think of a couple of scenarios in which it might not be entirely inappropriate) I'd consider finding another church. It's hard to imagine a church going to that kind of extreme.

For me the big one would be bad doctrine. It's the only reason I've left a church other than when I've moved away from the area. What I usually refer to as my last church is technically the one before the last one, but the one in between didn't last very long because I literally got to the point that I couldn't be sure we were talking about the same deity. The church I left got so heavily into anything and everything prophetic, and yet as far as I could see had no concept of following Biblical callings to test and validate. They adopted courses in prophecy (which itself seemed odd) that contained instructions that directly contradicted Scripture. For a time they practically hailed me as a prophet but as soon as I asked about some of the things they were doing everything shut down and nobody would even answer questions. Even when I pointed out the glaring contradiction between the prophetic training course they were using and Scripture and asked how the two could be reconciled about all I got back was "well I think it's OK so we're going ahead". I literally reached the point where it was clear that either they were so far off base I couldn't possibly continue to attend, or I was so badly off base I was calling good evil and calling evil good. If the latter were true they clearly didn't care about me enough to correct me even when I asked for correction, in which case I still couldn't attend. So I left, and found another church.

There are a few things about my current church I don't like much. I'd prefer to worship with a younger congregation, I'd prefer more contemporary music and I'd prefer the contemporary music we use to be more God-centered than man-centered. But the teaching is good, the fellowship is good, and we have built some solid relationships within the church. The church is very good where serving others is concerned - very few needs that arise within the church go unmet. There are things I don't like so much but I can live with them - I'll never find a church that's exactly to my liking.

jsimms435 said:

Well, I mentioned the incident with secular music before when that incident happened. The praise band did a part of a U2 song "I still haven't found what I'm looking for" which I thought was an odd choice when we as a church have actually found Jesus or we claim we have who is exactly what we are looking for. I thought the song sent the wrong message in an effort to relate to the lost watered down the message to a level I could not support

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There's a balance.... And many of us here have changed denominations (me included).


On the one hand, I so remember my father telling me, "There are only two kinds of people in the world: Those who look for green grass and those who work to make the grass greener... the first never succeed, the second sometimes do." And I remember (was it Abe Lincoln?) " you can't please all of the people all of the time." Churches are like FAMILY. They are a community, a communion.... make up ENTIRELY of sinners (which is the only reason I'm let in). We may have a crazy Aunt Zelda ... it's how it is in families. We are sinners in the same boat.... it's a hospital, not a country club. As my (big) family gets together, I don't necessary agree with everyone (or even LIKE everyone, truth be told)... they are FAMILY, I'll give any of them a kidney. And sometimes, you just need to accept the FAMILY isn't all about ME, isn't just ME. Community..... it's a lost concept these days.

On the other hand, we are not to associate with heretics and those that endorse (defend, support) persistent obvious sin. I think there is a PROCESS we are to employ (Matthew 18:15, etc., etc., etc., etc.), this must not be emotional or rushed, this must be motivated by LOVE and the desire for unity. There are good ways to go about conflict resolution. But YES, it can be..... we've done all we can.... and this remains something that in good conscience I cannot continue to live with. Although it was the RCC that kicked him out, Luther accepted reconciliation was not possible. That day CAN come. And it's a very sad one. And it ultimately means everyone blew it. Everyone lost. Sin.


I have publicly given the reasons why I left the RCC. It had to do exclusively with Dogma and the requirement that I docilicly swallow everything. I felt I could not in honestly swar that I did, when I did not But I languished over this. Not as long as I should have. I had MANY conversations with my teachers, my Catholic family, and yes appointments with my priest. Done with HUMILITY and with the acknowledgement that I could be wrong.... and that my action could be both sinful and wrong. I eventually came to some "peace" about my decision, but STILL acknowledge I may be wrong. And I have NO REGRETS at all for my time in the Catholic Church. I was richly blessed there and I thank God for it. I just couldn't SWEAR to GOD that I docilicly accepted a FEW things as DOMGA BECAUSE the RCC (alone) (now) taught them. My conscience wouldn't allow that. But I came to that conclusion VERY relunctantly. And I HATED leaving the church that had so blessed me and to which my family and so many friends belonged.

Been there. Ain't easy.


My advise: BE careful of ego and sin.... spend a LOT of time looking in the mirror.,, Go slow.,,, Listen.... Check facts (things aren't always as they seem).

Michael said:

False doctrine would be the biggest reason for me to go elsewhere.

Was blessed to be a member/deacon/elder/teacher in a sound fellowship for 20 years, until the Pastor finally retired at the age of 94 from the church he lead since 1976.

The church I am involved with now is part of a denomination which believes and preaches theology that I do not find in the Scripture, but the people love Jesus and many are living the life even though they may mentally hold to the modern "traditions of man." And they've allowed and invited me to teach there for many years such things as I present here in this Forum and on my website, without great rebuke. The Pastors may not fully understand, but they cannot argue with the great bulk of Scripture which supports what I teach. If that door were shut, I would probably begin to seek fellowship and communion elsewhere.
And the Pastors of my current church stand in accord with the Word regarding marriage, baptism and repentance from sin. We've lost possible congregants because our Pastor wouldn't baptize a couple living together who weren't married, and also confronted a member of the worship team who had not disclose that he was a registered sex offender having abused minors in his past. The individual was dismissed from the worship team, but told he could remain in the assembly to hear God's Word and demonstrate true repentance.

So, yes, it is mainly doctrines that make any provision for sin in the professing "believer" that give me pause and will drive me out of an assembly.

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This (the above) is the adult way to approach the matter... If you can't find a church you fully agree with, then find one with which you feel an affinity of spirit and prayer, and hang in there as best you can...

The Orthodox, should they for instance figure out that they have an actively practicing homosexual Priest, might very well be justified in departing from that parish Priest and its assets, but not from the Church... It can happen... And if there is no remedy through the Diocese or Arch-diocese, departure may be the only thing left...

But departure seldom turns out well...

Either for the Priest or for the one departing...

After 2000 years, doctrinal issues are pretty well ironed out...

But for a practicing homosexual Priest to turn from THAT practice to the handling of the Holy Gifts would be too much for me...

I would be the wrong guy for him to be around...


Arsenios

Josiah said:

Persistent teaching of false doctrine.

The defense of willful, persistent behavior that is clearly condemned in the Bible.

Moved away.


But I'd be careful about the first two. The problem is more likely to be with the one in the mirror, so proceed with humility and care. And if distance is a problem, I'd seek a church of the same denomination closer to home.

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I don't know that I'd agree the first two are more likely to be with the one in the mirror but that possibility certainly has to be considered before breaking fellowship.

Lämmchen said:

I agree with those saying false doctrine but I would go so far as to insist that if the church says that salvation isn't by grace through faith that you RUN as fast as you can.

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Wouldn't anything other than salvation by grace, through faith be...false doctrine...in regard to salvation???

Lämmchen said:

There are denominations that believe in works but still say that Jesus is their Savior. They obviously have faith given to them by God so we can't say they aren't Christian...it's just that they have added to the gospel into something the bible says is false.

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Right. When people add or project something onto the Scriptures, they are forcing the Bible to say something that it does not say. This creates a danger of false teaching. Other denominations add something to the Bible to force dogmas.

I'd say someone who doesn't get a fundamental thing like the gospel right probably isn't getting anything else right either. They don't really believe Jesus is their savior if they are relying on works because that just points to their belief that they are their own savior.

Another thing, just because someone says Jesus is their savior doesn't mean they are talking about the one from the Bible. If they claim things that aren't commandments from Jesus are in fact commandments from Jesus then they are talking about another Jesus.

Lämmchen said:

There are denominations that believe in works but still say that Jesus is their Savior. They obviously have faith given to them by God so we can't say they aren't Christian...it's just that they have added to the gospel into something the bible says is false.

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Yes!


Lots teach, "Jesus is the Savior but....." Whatever comes after the "but" contradicts and cancels what comes before it. And it happens a LOT. And it is THE most fundamental, serious false doctrine there is because it destroys the whole point of Christianity, that Jesus is the Savior.

Mat 3:1-6
In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
And saying, "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying,
"The voice of one crying in the wilderness,
Prepare ye the way of the Lord,
Make his paths straight."
And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

This ministry of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is prior to Christ's arrival...

Christ Himself repeated it after John's death...

Peter repeated it after Christ's Death...

We are repeating it here:

"Prepare ye the Way of the Lord!"

"Be ye making His Paths straight!"




Arsenios

Arsenios said:

Mat 3:1-6
In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
And saying, "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying,
"The voice of one crying in the wilderness,
Prepare ye the way of the Lord,
Make his paths straight."
And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

This ministry of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is prior to Christ's arrival...

Christ Himself repeated it after John's death...

Peter repeated it after Christ's Death...

We are repeating it here:

"Prepare ye the Way of the Lord!"

"Be ye making His Paths straight!"




Arsenios

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Sorry, I'm not following you. Best I can figure is that you are saying a person should leave a church if it doesn't perform John's baptism.
What is the point you are making by quoting these verses?