Can the Faith of Parents Save Their Children?

Josiah · Jun 11, 2019

Albion said:
But one cannot have Faith for someone else.

Of course. But obviously, the faith and obedience of parents can be the reason God blesses their children with mercy, grace and His gifts. As the biblical example given shows.

Arsenios said:
The parents cannot Save their Children directly - Only God can do that...

Of course.... as in the last plague, GOD caused the angel of death to specifically pass over homes of parents who had faith and obedience, saving their children. But the reason why God saved the children was specifically because of the faith and obedience of the parents, not a word is said about any faith or obedience on the part of the ones saved.

- Josiah

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Albion · Jun 11, 2019

Yes, certainly. However, it seems as though every time someone here (you, for instance) tries to put the matter into perspective, a response is sure to say he's claiming that one person can literally have faith for someone else.

Arsenios · Jun 11, 2019

Albion said:
But one cannot have Faith for someone else.

One can have and disciple the Faith of Christ TO one's children...

And yes, the children still must make that Faith of Christ their own faith...

Remember Paul's words concerning the priesthood...

One must lead one's own children well in order to lead the (larger) flock...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Jun 11, 2019

Josiah said:
Of course. But obviously, the faith and obedience of parents can be the reason God blesses their children with mercy, grace and His gifts. As the biblical example given shows.

Of course.... as in the last plague, GOD caused the angel of death to specifically pass over homes of parents who had faith and obedience, saving their children. But the reason why God saved the children was specifically because of the faith and obedience of the parents, not a word is said about any faith or obedience on the part of the ones saved.

- Josiah

Yes - The parents did save their first-born children in Egypt...

And these days, the prayers of pious parents for their children can save them as well...

They can later throw away what they have received, mind you...

Or they can confirm it in their own lives and flesh...

Nice response, Josiah - Thank-you...

Arsenios

Albion · Jun 11, 2019

Arsenios said:
One can have and disciple the Faith of Christ TO one's children...

Not the same thing we were talking about.

And yes, the children still must make that Faith of Christ their own faith...

Now you're getting there.

Arsenios · Jun 11, 2019

Albion said:
Not the same thing we were talking about.

Now you're getting there.

As a Christian, the parent saves his children by having them baptized into Christ...

He then disciples the baptized children in the Faith of Christ...

They live in the obedience of the Faith Christ discipled...

They pray daily together...

They fast together...

They participate in Church Services together...

Children are discipled in Christ's Faith together with their parents...

The faith of the parents saves those children...

They have Christ's Faith FOR their children...

Then the kids grow up, and as emerging adults,

they take responsibility for their own progress in Christ's Faith...

Some do so earlier...

The Faith of Christ in the parents, you see...

Saves the Children who are acquiring it...

In obedience to their parents...

Arsenios

Albion · Jun 11, 2019

Arsenios said:
As a Christian, the parent saves his children by having them baptized into Christ...

But that action is not Faith.

He then disciples the baptized children in the Faith of Christ...

They live in the obedience of the Faith Christ discipled...

They pray daily together...

They fast together...

They participate in Church Services together...

Children are discipled in Christ's Faith together with their parents...

The faith of the parents saves those children...

Of course it does not. You are merely using poetic language there in an attempt to say that the Faith of the parents was the reason why they raised their children in the church, NOT that they transferred their own Faith to their children. And as we all know, sometimes this nurturing doesn't succeed with them anyway.

Arsenios · Jun 12, 2019

Albion said:
But that action is not Faith.

Of COURSE it is!

It proceeds from the Faith of the parents...

Of course it does not.

Of course it does...

We are used to a much higher infant and child survival rate in our sissified western culture...

Look - The EOC understands fully that IF a child dies while having received Baptism through his or her parents, and having been discipled in the Praxis of the Way of Christ in the family, that child will not suffer condemnation upon repose, but Life Eternal...

You are merely using poetic language there in an attempt to say that the Faith of the parents was the reason why they raised their children in the church, NOT that they transferred their own Faith to their children. And as we all know, sometimes this nurturing doesn't succeed with them anyway.

How is the Faith of Christ transferred into us except by the DOING of that Faith in obedience to Christ...

"...Teaching them to carefully observe ALL that I have commanded you..."

I mean, that is why Christ discipled His disciples to disciple all the Nations...

This Faith is imparted THROUGH being discipled...

And it is imparted BY the Grace of God...

For we are saved by Grace through the Faith (of Christ)...

This is profoundly mis-understood in the West...

The West understands Faith as personal belief...

Arsenios

Albion · Jun 12, 2019

Arsenios said:
Of COURSE it is!

It proceeds from the Faith of the parents...

Proceeds from does not mean IS

MennoSota · Jun 12, 2019

Arsenios said:
Of COURSE it is!

It proceeds from the Faith of the parents...

Of course it does...

We are used to a much higher infant and child survival rate in our sissified western culture...

Look - The EOC understands fully that IF a child dies while having received Baptism through his or her parents, and having been discipled in the Praxis of the Way of Christ in the family, that child will not suffer condemnation upon repose, but Life Eternal...

How is the Faith of Christ transferred into us except by the DOING of that Faith in obedience to Christ...

"...Teaching them to carefully observe ALL that I have commanded you..."

I mean, that is why Christ discipled His disciples to disciple all the Nations...

This Faith is imparted THROUGH being discipled...

And it is imparted BY the Grace of God...

For we are saved by Grace through the Faith (of Christ)...

This is profoundly mis-understood in the West...

The West understands Faith as personal belief...

Arsenios

What the EOC understands and what the Bible teaches seems to be two different things.
Whether an infant is water baptized or not. Whether an adult is water baptized or not. Both are entirely at the mercy of God and his choice or not choice to extend gracious pardon. Baptizing an unrepentant sinner will not cause God to feel obligated to graciously save. Such a teaching regarding water baptism is a myth started after the Apostles and has no basis in God's word.
Thus, the EOC understands a myth and perpetuates it down through the ages as if it were truth.

Arsenios · Jun 13, 2019

Albion said:
Proceeds from does not mean IS

The OP did not ask if the faith of the parents IS the faith of their children...

It asks IF the Faith of the Parents CAN save their children...

Many Christian children have been martyred...

Most were being discipled by their Christian parents...

You have to differentiate between personal faith and the Faith of Christ being discipled to children through their parents...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Jun 13, 2019

Arsenios · Jun 13, 2019

MennoSota said:
What the EOC understands and what the Bible teaches seems to be two different things.

Christ spoke KJV English, right???

Whether an infant is water baptized or not.

Was Christ baptized in water?

Or not???

Whether an adult is water baptized or not.

Was Christ baptized in water?

Or not???

Both are entirely at the mercy of God

Is Christ God?

Or not???

Was Christ baptized in water?

Or not???

Such a teaching regarding water baptism is a myth started after the Apostles
and has no basis in God's word.

Was Christ our God Baptized in the WATER of the Jordan in God's word?

Or not???

Are we to FOLLOW Christ?

Or not???

Arsenios

MennoSota · Jun 13, 2019

Arsenios said:
Christ spoke KJV English, right???

Was Christ baptized in water?

Or not???

Was Christ baptized in water?

Or not???

Is Christ God?

Or not???

Was Christ baptized in water?

Or not???

Was Christ our God Baptized in the WATER of the Jordan in God's word?

Or not???

Are we to FOLLOW Christ?

Or not???

Arsenios

Your questions make no sense. Based upon your position that Jesus baptism was for all righteousness, that means there is no need for anyone to do anything...right? Jesus did it all at his baptism. Tis a shame he died...

RichWh1 · Jun 13, 2019

Jesus was baptized in water however not for forgiveness of sins or salvation.

His was the OT baptism that one received before going into ministry.

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Albion · Jun 13, 2019

Maybe. But by that reasoning, you would also have to conclude that the Last Supper--the Lords Supper or Eucharist recognized as a Sacrament by Christians--was a routine observance of Passover no different from any of the earlier ones. It too would be a formality that has nothing to do with grace, forgiveness, or any of that which Christians associate with Holy Communion.

RichWh1 · Jun 13, 2019

The Passover was a traditional ceremony. The Lord’s Supper was after the Passover meal, so the two are not the same meal.

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Albion · Jun 13, 2019

Arsenios said:
It asks IF the Faith of the Parents CAN save their children...

In the posts from the non-traditional Christians, it has been claimed that we supposedly think that the parents' faith can be transferred to the children, NOT that the faith of the parents can lead them to raise up their children as Christians who then come to faith also.

And you had it right when you wrote in post 43 the following:

One can have and disciple the Faith of Christ TO one's children...

And yes, the children still must make that Faith of Christ their own faith...

Josiah · Jun 13, 2019

Albion said:
In the posts from the non-traditional Christians, it has been claimed that we supposedly think that the parents' faith can be transferred to the children, NOT that the faith of the parents can lead them to raise up their children as Christians who then come to faith also.

The question of this thread is whether the faith/obedience of the parent can result in their CHILD being blessed (regardless of whether the child personally - at that moment in our chronological time - has faith/obedience.

I'm thinking of the last of the plagues of Egypt..... circumcision in the Old Covenant.... for two examples.

It's a question.

MennoSota · Jun 13, 2019

Josiah said:
The question of this thread is whether the faith/obedience of the parent can result in their CHILD being blessed (regardless of whether the child personally - at that moment in our chronological time - has faith/obedience.

I'm thinking of the last of the plagues of Egypt..... circumcision in the Old Covenant.... for two examples.

It's a question.

The question is: Can the faith of the parents save their child?
You answered...no.
I answered...no.
We agree. Infant baptism does nothing to save an infant.

Can the Faith of Parents Save Their Children?

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