Created in God's Image

Lamb · May 30, 2019

Man was created in God's image but after the fall, we lost so much of that...exactly what was lost or how much?

psalms 91 · May 30, 2019

innocence, erternal life physically, purity

MennoSota · May 30, 2019

The corruption of prideful rebellion caused our loss of holiness. Holiness is only restored through the atonement provided to those whom God has granted faith.
We can see the perfect man in Jesus and it is only in Christ Jesus that we can be sanctified and made pure.

MennoSota · May 30, 2019

On a bit of a side note...and because I don't wish to create a new thread...what aspects of the image of God are created into all humanity...even though our sin has corrupted that image?

Arsenios · May 30, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Exactly what was lost or how much?

We do not know...

If we did know, we would fall into despondence and not want to live or even try...

We lost everything but the image...

Then came John proclaiming:

Be ye repenting, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!

And indeed He is...

Arsenios

Arsenios · May 30, 2019

The question I would like to see addressed is: "What IS the image and likeness of God in a man?"

A.

MennoSota · May 30, 2019

Arsenios said:
The question I would like to see addressed is: "What IS the image and likeness of God in a man?"

A.

The Bible says God is love. Perhaps this is the image God placed in us so that we might love one another. Yet, now we see this dimly.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

Arsenios · May 31, 2019

MennoSota said:
The Bible says God is love. Perhaps this is the image God placed in us so that we might love one another. Yet, now we see this dimly.

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

God is Love, and man hates...
And yet man loves too...
We are commanded to forgive all...
And to weep upon our beds...
For what we have thought in our hearts...
For these thoughts are far from God...
Yet who can do Love 24/7/365?
And why would we want anything else?

Thank-you Menno...

Arsenios

Pedrito · Jun 18, 2019

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Post #1:

Man was created in God's image but after the fall, we lost so much of that...exactly what was lost or how much?

It might be fun to view the question from the perspectives of the Mormon Church and the Worldwide Church of God and their ilks (if my understanding of those perspectives is correct). Would they tend to concentrate on what humanity hasn’t lost?

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What haven’t human beings lost (generally speaking)?

Humans, for a start, seems not to have lost:
- Their eyes; (Proverbs 15:3)
- Their ears; (Numbers 14:28)
- Their nose (Genesis 8:21)
- Their hands and arms (Deuteronomy 26:8)
- Their fingers; (Deuteronomy 9:10)
- Their feet (Nahum 1:3)
- Their ability to laugh; (Psalm 2:4, Psalm 59:8)
- Their ability to deride. (Psalm 2:4, Psalm 59:8)

I’m sure the experts can find more if they want to.

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Seeing that there appears to be entrenched positions within CH to not take God’s Word seriously when it challenges cherished, post-Nicene doctrines and practices, what harm can be done by a little tongue-in-cheek fun from time to time?

(Has the smile become a grimace, or the grimace a smile?)

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Lamb · Jun 18, 2019

Pedrito said:
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Post #1:

It might be fun to view the question from the perspectives of the Mormon Church and the Worldwide Church of God and their ilks (if my understanding of those perspectives is correct). Would they tend to concentrate on what humanity hasn’t lost?

==============================================================================================

What haven’t human beings lost (generally speaking)?

Humans, for a start, seems not to have lost:
- Their eyes; (Proverbs 15:3)
- Their ears; (Numbers 14:28)
- Their nose (Genesis 8:21)
- Their hands and arms (Deuteronomy 26:8)
- Their fingers; (Deuteronomy 9:10)
- Their feet (Nahum 1:3)
- Their ability to laugh; (Psalm 2:4, Psalm 59:8)
- Their ability to deride. (Psalm 2:4, Psalm 59:8)

I’m sure the experts can find more if they want to.

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Seeing that there appears to be entrenched positions within CH to not take God’s Word seriously when it challenges cherished, post-Nicene doctrines and practices, what harm can be done by a little tongue-in-cheek fun from time to time?

(Has the smile become a grimace, or the grimace a smile?)

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Well, this thread isn't in the World Religion & Speculative Theology forum...it's in the Christians Theology forum so let's stick to the denominations who believe in the Nicene Creed as per site rules for this particular forum.

Pedrito · Jun 19, 2019

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Post #10:

Well, this thread isn't in the World Religion & Speculative Theology forum...it's in the Christians Theology forum so let's stick to the denominations who believe in the Nicene Creed as per site rules for this particular forum.

Good point.

That’s why the ideas presented were offered “tongue-in-cheek”.

However, something was offered seriously – the “there appears to be entrenched positions within CH to not take God’s Word seriously when it challenges cherished, post-Nicene doctrines and practices”.

For instance, no statements of Holy Scripture have been tendered (that I remember seeing) that mention the “fundamental” teaching of many churches, that there is an age of understanding/responsibility/accountability/etc. (No Scripture = false belief.)

And the statement that a “forest of verses” exists in support of a soul surviving physical death, has proven to be nothing more than a flight of fancy.

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But why complicate things by invoking Holy Scripture to vet entrenched, post-Nicene beliefs?

It’s outrageous! Isn’t it?

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With reference to the original topic, I have heard it said that mankind lost the privilege of dwelling with God in Heaven.

Yet (with my possibly inadequate vision) I have seen no reference at all to mankind ending up in Heaven if he had not sinned. His allocated dwelling was stated to be the Earth. (More information, anyone?)

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MennoSota · Jun 19, 2019

Pedrito said:
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Post #10:

Good point.

That’s why the ideas presented were offered “tongue-in-cheek”.

However, something was offered seriously – the “there appears to be entrenched positions within CH to not take God’s Word seriously when it challenges cherished, post-Nicene doctrines and practices”.

For instance, no statements of Holy Scripture have been tendered (that I remember seeing) that mention the “fundamental” teaching of many churches, that there is an age of understanding/responsibility/accountability/etc. (No Scripture = false belief.)

And the statement that a “forest of verses” exists in support of a soul surviving physical death, has proven to be nothing more than a flight of fancy.

==============================================================================================

But why complicate things by invoking Holy Scripture to vet entrenched, post-Nicene beliefs?

It’s outrageous! Isn’t it?

==============================================================================================
==============================================================================================

With reference to the original topic, I have heard it said that mankind lost the privilege of dwelling with God in Heaven.

Yet (with my possibly inadequate vision) I have seen no reference at all to mankind ending up in Heaven if he had not sinned. His allocated dwelling was stated to be the Earth. (More information, anyone?)

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Were Heaven and Earth not juxtiposed before the fall?
Why did the angel, with sword in hand, stand guarding the entrance to the garden when Adam and Eve were cast out?
Why did God then give them the promise of a Redeemer that would come?
Why does the entire Bible point to the Promised One?

Pedrito · Jun 22, 2019

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In Post #12, MennoSota tabled some questions in response to my pointing out in Post #11:

With reference to the original topic, I have heard it said that mankind lost the privilege of dwelling with God in Heaven.

Yet (with my possibly inadequate vision) I have seen no reference at all to mankind ending up in Heaven if he had not sinned. His allocated dwelling was stated to be the Earth. (More information, anyone?)

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MennoSota’s questions were as follows:

Were Heaven and Earth not juxtiposed before the fall?
Why did the angel, with sword in hand, stand guarding the entrance to the garden when Adam and Eve were cast out?
Why did God then give them the promise of a Redeemer that would come?
Why does the entire Bible point to the Promised One?

But were those questions actually helpful? Or were they designed to be confusing? Let’s have a look.

(Confusion is another of the dishonest techniques used to bolster unscriptural beliefs. If people are confused, they give up on thinking, and readily fall back to their original conditioning – exactly the result being aimed for.)

Were Heaven and Earth not juxtiposed before the fall? Indeed they were. Just like after the fall. (Psalm 115:16: The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.)

Why did the angel, with sword in hand, stand guarding the entrance to the garden when Adam and Eve were cast out? To prevent them having continued access to the tree of life, which would have guaranteed them ongoing life (on Earth, we’ve just found out).

Why did God then give them the promise of a Redeemer that would come? So that the “paradise lost” would be regained. (Acts 3:21)

Why does the entire Bible point to the Promised One? Because that Man was God’s chosen mechanism of rescue. (1 Corinthians 15:21)

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Not one of the verses tendered, when looked at carefully, says anything about Man going to Heaven had he not sinned. So we’ll just have to wait a little longer, for relevant verses to be presented.

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MennoSota · Jun 22, 2019

Pedrito said:
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In Post #12, MennoSota tabled some questions in response to my pointing out in Post #11:

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MennoSota’s questions were as follows:

But were those questions actually helpful? Or were they designed to be confusing? Let’s have a look.

(Confusion is another of the dishonest techniques used to bolster unscriptural beliefs. If people are confused, they give up on thinking, and readily fall back to their original conditioning – exactly the result being aimed for.)

Were Heaven and Earth not juxtiposed before the fall? Indeed they were. Just like after the fall. (Psalm 115:16: The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.)

Why did the angel, with sword in hand, stand guarding the entrance to the garden when Adam and Eve were cast out? To prevent them having continued access to the tree of life, which would have guaranteed them ongoing life (on Earth, we’ve just found out).

Why did God then give them the promise of a Redeemer that would come? So that the “paradise lost” would be regained. (Acts 3:21)

Why does the entire Bible point to the Promised One? Because that Man was God’s chosen mechanism of rescue. (1 Corinthians 15:21)

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Not one of the verses tendered, when looked at carefully, says anything about Man going to Heaven had he not sinned. So we’ll just have to wait a little longer, for relevant verses to be presented.

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If, as you correctly state, heaven and Earth were/are juxtaposed, why does it matter where man would have lived, had the fall not occured? We would be with God and God with us.

atpollard · Jun 22, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Man was created in God's image but after the fall, we lost so much of that...exactly what was lost or how much?

What was lost: righteousness.
How much of the image of God was lost: none?

[Gen 1:26-27 NASB] 26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

God created us in his image.

[Gen 9:6 NASB] 6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.

Still true after the fall in Genesis 9.

[1Co 11:7 NASB] 7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.

Still true in the New Testament.

[2Co 4:4 NASB] 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Even more true of Christ (whose image we reflect).

Pedrito · Jun 23, 2019

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Dictionary.com: juxtapose: to place close together or side by side, especially for comparison or contrast.

The two (Heaven and Earth) are contrasted quite clearly in Holy Scripture. (Psalm 115:16: The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.)

MennoSota, Post #14: If, as you correctly state, heaven and Earth were/are juxtaposed, why does it matter where man would have lived, had the fall not occured? We would be with God and God with us.

This appears to be a new tack, not related to the statements in Post #13.

But let’s follow the thought.

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I have heard it proclaimed a number of times in “Evangelical” circles: “God made Man to be with Him in Heaven.”

As with other statements issued within Christendom from time to time, there appears to be a dearth of supporting Scripture for that concept. (To help preclude some of the straw-clutching that may be attempted, let me ask: When various commentators speak of the returned Christ reigning on Earth, over whom or what will He be reigning?)

It is wholesome to represent God’s Holy Revelation to us with accuracy. It is unwholesome not to.

So let us continue our wait with patience, for relevant verses to be presented.

(And watch for other attempts to disguise the fact that they probably don’t exist.)

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atpollard · Jun 23, 2019

Deleted to stay out of the conversation.

Created in God's Image

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