Guilt by Association

Jason76

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I see this as a big problem in politics. For instance, if you take typical white supremacists and traditional conservatives, they agree on much - but certainly hate each other! Also, liberals of Bill Clinton variety and Communists have something in common - but are not on the same page!

However, though, now with Trump, "guilt by association" has painted him as a Nazi and all sorts of vile things. How much is this justified?
 

tango

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I see this as a big problem in politics. For instance, if you take typical white supremacists and traditional conservatives, they agree on much - but certainly hate each other! Also, liberals of Bill Clinton variety and Communists have something in common - but are not on the same page!

However, though, now with Trump, "guilt by association" has painted him as a Nazi and all sorts of vile things. How much is this justified?

I don't think "guilt by association" is a useful concept at all.

There is a growing tendency for people to figure that whatever group they belong to is made up of people who have a variety of viewpoints, that coalesce around a common thread. And then members of "the other group" are a uniform mass who are wrong (obviously) and who agree with each other on every point there is.

Hence if I vote for candidate A I'll figure that I looked at A and B and decided A was the better candidate on balance even if I did vote with reservations, and yet assume that you voting for B means you agree with B on every single matter however absurd, and you approve of every single thing B has ever done in their life, however unpleasant.
 

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I disagree with "guilt by association". I have a friend on FB who insisted that I'm guilty of anything any Republican has said or done that he dislikes because of guilt by association. Seriously?
 

psalms 91

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I dont believe that it is necessarily true but is an indicator of what might be, what is said by the person paints a much better picture of what is fact. Your own words will either save or condemn you
 

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I disagree with "guilt by association". I have a friend on FB who insisted that I'm guilty of anything any Republican has said or done that he dislikes because of guilt by association. Seriously?

That's quite the mindset to have, and one that can easily turn people off to have any form of association with a person of that mindset.
 

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That's quite the mindset to have, and one that can easily turn people off to have any form of association with a person of that mindset.

He's a very anti-Trump person and posts really horrendous memes. If anyone comments against the meme then they're Trump lovers and well then he and his friends say the most vicious things. It's not a good atmosphere.
 

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He's a very anti-Trump person and posts really horrendous memes. If anyone comments against the meme then they're Trump lovers and well then he and his friends say the most vicious things. It's not a good atmosphere.
Yeah I have to 'unfollow' some of my friends because they constantly bash the other and if I comment against it they turn against me, it's a shame.
I have another friend that always post false quotes and memes against the democrat party, then when I expose them I'm again the bad guy, people are so petty sometimes and politics seems to bring out the worst in people. I can have some decent conversations if it's a self worded post (not a meme) and they are sincere.
 

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Yeah I have to 'unfollow' some of my friends because they constantly bash the other and if I comment against it they turn against me, it's a shame.
I have another friend that always post false quotes and memes against the democrat party, then when I expose them I'm again the bad guy, people are so petty sometimes and politics seems to bring out the worst in people. I can have some decent conversations if it's a self worded post (not a meme) and they are sincere.

Do you have friends that believe any meme they see as fact? I have friends that are like that and it's very annoying because they don't even try to research anything.
 

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Do you have friends that believe any meme they see as fact? I have friends that are like that and it's very annoying because they don't even try to research anything.
Yep!
Here is a great example!
A friend posted a "quote" from Thomas Jefferson saying if anyone speaks against the press they are a tyrant. Then there is a tweet from Trump raising awareness of fake news by the press... I double checked Thomas Jeffersons quote and as it turns out he never said anything of the sorts but actually the OPPOSITE and agreeing with Trump, my friend had so many people riled up calling the president a tyrant and I was happy to burst their bubble. I'm not bias on fact checking either, Trump supporters will post fake pictures of Hillary Clinton in black face or a nazi flag in the background, it makes me sick how people love to spread lies.
--------------------
Supposed quote.....
8f0860baa121e1f97a9bdd17f0e1625d.jpg

-------------------
His actual views on the press......
3e6bd0458967b82deb4c216ed80bb84b.jpg

-----------
 

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I've called out both sides. It's usually easy to pick out the fake quotes because they too easily fit an agenda!
 

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He's a very anti-Trump person and posts really horrendous memes. If anyone comments against the meme then they're Trump lovers and well then he and his friends say the most vicious things. It's not a good atmosphere.

The other side has people exactly the same - only in the other direction! Anyway, this "identity politics" stuff has driven me up the wall However, I don't have to listen to it. I can defriend these people! But a trolling mean, side of me wants to watch. :disgonbegood:
 

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The other side has people exactly the same - only in the other direction! Anyway, this "identity politics" stuff has driven me up the wall However, I don't have to listen to it. I can defriend these people! But a trolling mean, side of me wants to watch. :disgonbegood:

I'm done watching LOL It gets old year after year and it's been going on for way too long. So all those memes they share, I just unfollow the people or groups they come from so I see less and less of them. It works out now so there aren't many political things to see. Not too many will just post a status without a meme anymore.
 

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The other side has people exactly the same - only in the other direction! Anyway, this "identity politics" stuff has driven me up the wall However, I don't have to listen to it. I can defriend these people! But a trolling mean, side of me wants to watch. :disgonbegood:

I'm done watching LOL It gets old year after year and it's been going on for way too long. So all those memes they share, I just unfollow the people or groups they come from so I see less and less of them. It works out now so there aren't many political things to see. Not too many will just post a status without a meme anymore.
 

Albion

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The other side has people exactly the same - only in the other direction!
That's the routine thing to say. However, it is untrue.

I guess that its just something of a pet peeve of mine when one side does really bad things, but then its apologists try to mute all criticism by finding a couple of deeds done by unrepresentative people who allegedly are of the opposite mindset en route to arguing that *everyone does it* or that the actions balance out.
 
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psalms 91

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That's the routine thing to say. However, it is untrue.

I guess that its just something of a pet peeve of mine when one side does really bad things, but then its apologists try to mute all criticism by finding a couple of deeds done by unrepresentative people who allegedly are of the opposite mindset en route to arguing that *everyone does it* or that the actions balance out.
I could apply this to either side
 

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Yeh, yeh. Very funny.
 

MoreCoffee

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I see this as a big problem in politics. For instance, if you take typical white supremacists and traditional conservatives, they agree on much - but certainly hate each other! Also, liberals of Bill Clinton variety and Communists have something in common - but are not on the same page!

However, though, now with Trump, "guilt by association" has painted him as a Nazi and all sorts of vile things. How much is this justified?

Donald is not a Nazi. But he does tell lies and some of the lies are aimed at Hispanics - allegedly the ones crossing the border without a visa are criminals, rapists, and other things - which is a little bit like Joseph Goebbels but not the same so he is not a Nazi.

Donald is not a murderer as far as anyone in law enforcement knows but he is an adulterer and a fornicator and he did boast about molesting women when he was chatting in a bus with friends and an open microphone. So he isn't a murderer, apparently.

Can you explain what association Donald has that makes him guilty?

He isn't a Russian spy as far as the public knows but he did ask the Russians to spy on Hillary Clinton and he did ask Wikileaks to publish whenever embarrassing material they allegedly had about Hillary Clinton. And Donald has refused to have a USA translator present in his meetings with Vladimir Putin even though Vladimir Putin had a translator present himself. So Donald probably isn't a Russian agent but he has some things in common with one.

Anyway, politicians have always played the guilt by association game when it looked like it could benefit them at an election. Donald does it, he tried to make Hillary Clinton guilty because she is married the Bill Clinton who allegedly raped someone or several someones. Donald did that on TV. So maybe if someone does it to him it is the cycle going around and then coming around, maybe.
 

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Donald is not a Nazi. But he does tell lies and some of the lies are aimed at Hispanics - allegedly the ones crossing the border without a visa are criminals, rapists, and other things - which is a little bit like Joseph Goebbels but not the same so he is not a Nazi.

Donald is not a murderer as far as anyone in law enforcement knows but he is an adulterer and a fornicator and he did boast about molesting women when he was chatting in a bus with friends and an open microphone. So he isn't a murderer, apparently.

Can you explain what association Donald has that makes him guilty?

He isn't a Russian spy as far as the public knows but he did ask the Russians to spy on Hillary Clinton and he did ask Wikileaks to publish whenever embarrassing material they allegedly had about Hillary Clinton. And Donald has refused to have a USA translator present in his meetings with Vladimir Putin even though Vladimir Putin had a translator present himself. So Donald probably isn't a Russian agent but he has some things in common with one.

Anyway, politicians have always played the guilt by association game when it looked like it could benefit them at an election. Donald does it, he tried to make Hillary Clinton guilty because she is married the Bill Clinton who allegedly raped someone or several someones. Donald did that on TV. So maybe if someone does it to him it is the cycle going around and then coming around, maybe.
Hillary, Obama and Bill all agreed with Trump on border security, after romancing republican voters for most of the campaign they reversed it to win democrat votes, they lied, Trump held is original opinion. You work deceit the same way, perhaps American politics is something you don't have any business in seeing that Australians don't have the right to vote in America

perhaps every illegal criminal that gets caught say... MS13 gang members... instead of putting them in jail we could deport them off to come live with you? That would be fair right?
 

tango

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The other side has people exactly the same - only in the other direction! Anyway, this "identity politics" stuff has driven me up the wall However, I don't have to listen to it. I can defriend these people! But a trolling mean, side of me wants to watch. :disgonbegood:

Part of me wants to demand everyone call me Latifa, on the basis I'm a black lesbian in transition. Any refusal is nothing more than society's attempts to impose their dated and bigoted heteronormative patriarchal views based on their preconceived assumptions relating to my cultural and gender identity.
 

Jason76

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Part of me wants to demand everyone call me Latifa, on the basis I'm a black lesbian in transition. Any refusal is nothing more than society's attempts to impose their dated and bigoted heteronormative patriarchal views based on their preconceived assumptions relating to my cultural and gender identity.

People preachy and obsessed with right-wing politics are into "white identity politics" - most of the time. How is that possibly different than other types?
 
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