Slavery Repartations in the US

Jason76

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
465
Age
47
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Unitarian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,149
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The welfare state usually isn't about helping people. It's a very effective tool to keep people dependent.

It's said that the most dangerous man is the man with nothing to lose. By giving people a token gesture you give them something to lose, keeping them enslaved for as long as the system keeps them chained. By structuring a welfare state that punishes work it ensures people will stay dependent on welfare and never learn to provide for themselves.

It's also a very powerful tool to set one part of the population against another, thereby allowing those in charge to play the divide-and-conquer game along another manufactured fault line.
 

Jason76

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
465
Age
47
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Unitarian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
The welfare state usually isn't about helping people. It's a very effective tool to keep people dependent.

It's said that the most dangerous man is the man with nothing to lose. By giving people a token gesture you give them something to lose, keeping them enslaved for as long as the system keeps them chained. By structuring a welfare state that punishes work it ensures people will stay dependent on welfare and never learn to provide for themselves.

It's also a very powerful tool to set one part of the population against another, thereby allowing those in charge to play the divide-and-conquer game along another manufactured fault line.


Yeah, I certainly agree. As you say "divide and conquer". No doubt so much political hate against blacks etc.. comes form welfare - as it has turned takers into (what some see as) pests - first pets, then pests.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,149
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Yeah, I certainly agree. As you say "divide and conquer". No doubt so much political hate against blacks etc.. comes form welfare - as it has turned them into (what some see as) pests - first pets, then pests.

It's not even as if it's exclusively about black people, the term "white trash" clearly doesn't apply to the black residents of trailer parks.

One other thought, if you want to strip away hope from someone a good way to do it is to get them dependent on welfare. Before long they realise they can never provide for themselves, at which point they are pretty much enslaved for life.

I read an article some years ago that compared a slum in rural India to a council estate in Glasgow. A council estate is social housing, often associated with the less desirable elements of society (partly because it's increasingly rare for anyone else to qualify for it). As it said, in the slums people didn't have time to waste their lives using drugs because they had to scavenge on trash heaps in order to survive. It's easy to argue that it's demeaning but it gave them a purpose in life. The occupant of the sink estate had no such hope - they were given money and effectively barred from working, so there was less and less reason for them to get up in the morning, less and less hope for the future, and so it's hardly surprising that before long all they wanted to do was find a way to dull the tedium of life. They didn't have enough money to do anything but had all day every day to try and fill.

When I first graduated university and claimed welfare pending finding my first job one of the declarations I had to sign every two weeks was that "I did no work, paid or unpaid". At least back them you couldn't even do volunteer work without risking losing some benefits.


With regard to the black population, I'm not sure that I'd use terms like "political hate" quite so freely but I suspect a part of the issue many people have is the sense of a double standard. We're supposed to be blind to race but every which way we turn people (usually those on the political left) want to focus on race. We can have special associations for black people but a comparable association for white people is deemed racist. If a white man attacks a black man the assumption is that it is racially motivated but if the roles are reversed it's just one of those things, or even justified on the basis of some perceived historic wrong, even though the white man never owned any slaves and the black man never picked any cotton. It's hardly surprising that people dislike a double standard, nor that they don't see a double standard as being an appropriate way to correct a past double standard.
 

Jason76

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
465
Age
47
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Unitarian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
It's not even as if it's exclusively about black people, the term "white trash" clearly doesn't apply to the black residents of trailer parks.

One other thought, if you want to strip away hope from someone a good way to do it is to get them dependent on welfare. Before long they realise they can never provide for themselves, at which point they are pretty much enslaved for life.

I read an article some years ago that compared a slum in rural India to a council estate in Glasgow. A council estate is social housing, often associated with the less desirable elements of society (partly because it's increasingly rare for anyone else to qualify for it). As it said, in the slums people didn't have time to waste their lives using drugs because they had to scavenge on trash heaps in order to survive. It's easy to argue that it's demeaning but it gave them a purpose in life. The occupant of the sink estate had no such hope - they were given money and effectively barred from working, so there was less and less reason for them to get up in the morning, less and less hope for the future, and so it's hardly surprising that before long all they wanted to do was find a way to dull the tedium of life. They didn't have enough money to do anything but had all day every day to try and fill.

When I first graduated university and claimed welfare pending finding my first job one of the declarations I had to sign every two weeks was that "I did no work, paid or unpaid". At least back them you couldn't even do volunteer work without risking losing some benefits.


With regard to the black population, I'm not sure that I'd use terms like "political hate" quite so freely but I suspect a part of the issue many people have is the sense of a double standard. We're supposed to be blind to race but every which way we turn people (usually those on the political left) want to focus on race. We can have special associations for black people but a comparable association for white people is deemed racist. If a white man attacks a black man the assumption is that it is racially motivated but if the roles are reversed it's just one of those things, or even justified on the basis of some perceived historic wrong, even though the white man never owned any slaves and the black man never picked any cotton. It's hardly surprising that people dislike a double standard, nor that they don't see a double standard as being an appropriate way to correct a past double standard.

I did say "etc.."
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
31,640
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...very-reparations/ar-BBVJLeN?OCID=ansmsnnews11

The white identity politics crowd is solidly against it - claiming the welfare since 1965 did the job - and, ironically, didn't help anything.

However, though, my view is mixed. But I do agree that the welfare since 1965 has not helped in the long run, and maybe reparations would not either.

My family didn't own slaves. Should my taxes still go toward reparations or should I receive some money for my family helping slaves escape to freedom through the underground railroad? How would reparations be decided anyway? Just be dark skinned? How dark? And what if you're mixed? Do you still get money? What if your great great grandpa was black? Then what? I have endless questions. :stups:
 

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
39
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The welfare state usually isn't about helping people. It's a very effective tool to keep people dependent.

It's said that the most dangerous man is the man with nothing to lose. By giving people a token gesture you give them something to lose, keeping them enslaved for as long as the system keeps them chained. By structuring a welfare state that punishes work it ensures people will stay dependent on welfare and never learn to provide for themselves.

It's also a very powerful tool to set one part of the population against another, thereby allowing those in charge to play the divide-and-conquer game along another manufactured fault line.
Ain't that the truth!
 

Jason76

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
465
Age
47
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Unitarian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
I get queezy when I hear about people saying "My people didn't own slaves.". It reminds me of those Koreans I saw on a forum - saying they had the right to be bigoted - because they didn't do nothing to Africans (or African-Americans) etc..
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,208
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
I get queezy when I hear about people saying "My people didn't own slaves.". It reminds me of those Koreans I saw on a forum - saying they had the right to be bigoted - because they didn't do nothing to Africans (or African-Americans) etc..
And I hate it when someone feels like I owe them something for something that happened almost 200 years ago, I dont own slaves and never have, I owe them nothing
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,149
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I get queezy when I hear about people saying "My people didn't own slaves.". It reminds me of those Koreans I saw on a forum - saying they had the right to be bigoted - because they didn't do nothing to Africans (or African-Americans) etc..

The curious thing here is that if we see a group of black criminals and assume all black people are guilty we are called racist. Yet when we don't want to be tarred with the same brush as the white people who owned slaves because it was nothing to do with us that's apparently also racist.

Funny how that works, no?

Serious question - at what point am I no longer responsible for things done by people decades or centuries ago, just because they happen to share my race? Should I also pay reparations to women because some have been raped by people who share my gender, even though I had nothing to do with that either?
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
31,640
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I get queezy when I hear about people saying "My people didn't own slaves.". It reminds me of those Koreans I saw on a forum - saying they had the right to be bigoted - because they didn't do nothing to Africans (or African-Americans) etc..

Well I'm not a bigot AND I don't feel that I owe anyone any money for something someone else did in the past.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,149
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Another curious point. Apparently the children of illegal immigrants can't be deported because they can't be expected to pay the price for their parents misdeeds. But at the same time generations of white people who had nothing to do with slavery are expected to pay the price for the misdeeds of people many generations before them, regardless of whether they were even related.

I was bullied at school by a black kid. It doesn't logically follow that all black kids are bullies but, you know, maybe the black community would like to pay reparations to me to make up for it?
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
31,640
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Here's an article suggesting that reparations HAVE been made and that was through the Civil War! https://www.bluffton.edu/homepages/facstaff/bergerd/essays/reparations.html

The monetary cost of the Civil War, North and South, is estimated at $44.4 billion in 1990 dollars. This breaks down to Union costs of more than $1000 (1990 dollars) for every man, woman and child in the Union; and Confederate costs of well over $2000 for every man, woman and child in the Confederacy.

This is only the direct, billed cost of military pay and supplies, excluding veterans' pensions which typically add a threefold increase. Nor does it include the many millions (in 1864 dollars) of damage done to the infrastructure of the Confederacy--and of Union border states--during the war; each million amounts to about $9 million in 1990 dollars. We could conservatively estimate that the total monetary cost of the Civil War was on the order of $200-500 billion in 1990 dollars, and perhaps as high as one or two trillion dollars.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,677
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...very-reparations/ar-BBVJLeN?OCID=ansmsnnews11

The white identity politics crowd is solidly against it - claiming the welfare since 1965 did the job - and, ironically, didn't help anything.

However, though, my view is mixed. But I do agree that the welfare since 1965 has not helped in the long run, and maybe reparations would not either.


I think this effort of some liberals to make themselves FEEL better and convince THEMSELVES that THEY corrected things is simply absurd. I think the USA has "apologized" for this many times. The time to "move on" from this came a LONG time ago, long before anyone alive today was born. But liberals want to FEEL better.... not actually HELP others.


Slavery (which everyone admits was a HORRIBLE, MONSTEROUS thing) ended over 150 years ago (roughly 6 full generations ago). No one alive today was ever a slave in the USA (or even the grandchild of a slave). YES, EVERYONE (regardless of some aspect of the life in a great-great-great-great grandparent) who NEEDS a hand UP should get that. Regardless of gender or race or ethnicity or language or religion- - because they WANT and would benefit from assistance (such as education).




.
 

Albion

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
7,516
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
My family didn't own slaves. Should my taxes still go toward reparations or should I receive some money for my family helping slaves escape to freedom through the underground railroad? How would reparations be decided anyway? Just be dark skinned? How dark? And what if you're mixed? Do you still get money? What if your great great grandpa was black? Then what? I have endless questions. :stups:

Rest assured that if such a bill ever came close to passage in Congress, there would be very little attention paid to all those problems, reasonable as they are. That's the mentality of the "We have to pass it in order to see what's in it" crowd.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,677
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I suspect if any such bill came to congress, it would PASS (pretty much along Party lines). The Dems need the African/American vote. Some Republicans will vote for it for the same reason.

Would it pass the Senate? Probably not.

Would Trump veto it if it does? Well, Trump so far is the LEAST vetoing president in recent history, but I suspect he would this - and then the Dems would SHOUT how racist Republicans are in order to shore up their weakening hold on African Americans.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,677
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
POLITICS.....


African-Americans are starting to drift from the absolute servitude to the Democratic Party, at least among the growing middle class African Americans. After all, what have the libs done for them? Their income, unemployment and even prison population rose fast under Obama but no group has benefited more from Trump and the Republican policies than African Americans..... never has the unemployment rate among them been lower than it is now, never in history has their income risen more. While there's certainly no mass exodus, some Democrats are afraid that they could loose some of this group - just as they lost a lot of union men during Reagan and then again for Trump.

So, along with the "Green New Deal" and some other liberal faves, this is being added to the mix. It's especially useful because it won't become law (so they don't have to actually live with the result of this) BUT they can use it to prove how racist Republicans are... and keep African American in their pocket, REGARDLESS of how much they tend to benefit from Republican policies.
 

Jason76

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
465
Age
47
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Unitarian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
No
POLITICS.....


African-Americans are starting to drift from the absolute servitude to the Democratic Party, at least among the growing middle class African Americans. After all, what have the libs done for them? Their income, unemployment and even prison population rose fast under Obama but no group has benefited more from Trump and the Republican policies than African Americans..... never has the unemployment rate among them been lower than it is now, never in history has their income risen more. While there's certainly no mass exodus, some Democrats are afraid that they could loose some of this group - just as they lost a lot of union men during Reagan and then again for Trump.

So, along with the "Green New Deal" and some other liberal faves, this is being added to the mix. It's especially useful because it won't become law (so they don't have to actually live with the result of this) BUT they can use it to prove how racist Republicans are... and keep African American in their pocket, REGARDLESS of how much they tend to benefit from Republican policies.


There is a theory that the whole "Great Society" was just a way to buy off groups, while the creators (some of them) laugh at them (Look at LBJ's racist language.).
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,149
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Would all black people qualify for reparations? I've heard it said that black people lack positive role models and so struggle to get ahead. But the black guy I saw driving his open-topped Ferrari through London's financial district obviously didn't get that memo. Would he get reparations from white people who can barely afford a poster of the Ferrari he drives? Or would it just be something that furthers the welfare state policy of discouraging self-reliance?
 
Top Bottom