Can demons be saved if they repent?

Andrew · Mar 4, 2019

Arsenios said:
Of course, because if you do not turn from a sin, you continue in it...

If you do a sin but once, and never again, it is repented...

But I can tell you this:

IF you decide to commit a sin, and then actually DO commit that sin, then IF you have the Holy Spirit working in you, that Spirit will depart from you, and it will be palpable and apparent and obvious - It will be spiritually catastrophic... It happened to Judas, and he committed suicide... It happened to Peter, and he fell into exceeding bitter sadness, and returned to Christ and was restored to his Apostleship which he had lost by thrice denying Christ... Judas, otoh, took matters into his own hands, and was destroyed... He did not come to Christ in repentance, in agony of soul... And what about Ananias and Sapphire?

Deliberate sin is soul destroying, recoverable by repentance, except suicide...

Arsenios

So it's impossible for a Christian to sin or commit the same sin twice? Is there accidental sins?
I believe the Holy Spirit in you will convict you and you will feel sudden sorrow but grace allows for a maturing growth in the Christian so where they are weak and stumble the Spirit does not flee but comforts you in the process of maturity.
Remember this, if you say you have no sin you are a liar. The Father will RAISE you to perfection, but if I utter a bad word more than once in my Christian life well I guess I'll just live life in fear because im going to hell after this :/

MennoSota · Mar 4, 2019

psalms 91 said:
Contrary to what other say you are right on

Do you believe in justification by merit, 91?
If we can sin our way out of God's salvation, it stands to reason we must work our way into God's salvation. One is not mutually exclusive of the other.

Josiah · Mar 5, 2019

Unrelated to this thread, but wrongly participating in the hijack (lol)....

I hold that it IS possible to "fall from faith" and thus become "unsaved". But I do NOT hold that one can save self. So, no, holding we can "fall" does NOT mean we can work ourselves saved.

Using physical life as an illustration, I could not work myself alive. Life was GIVEN to me (via means) some 9 months prior to my birthday... but I can commit suicide. I don't think that's done by sinning... it's done by renouncing faith. Thus, like 99.9% of Christians (100% before Calvin), I reject OSAS and hold that where Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide is in place, so is justification. Where it is absent, so is justification.

Now, to the point: No, I do not hold that demons will repent and believe....

Arsenios · Mar 5, 2019

MennoSota said:
Arsenios, you have described salvation by merit, apart from grace.

I described the loss of Salvation by deliberately and wholeheartedly embracing a sin...
That loss is the apparent departure of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...
It is actually the departure of the person from the Holy Spirit by turning from God and embracing a sin...
And from this turning away from God, God departs...

And by repentance He will return, IF ONLY he should repent from that embracing of sin by deliberately sinning...

This makes me sad

:empathy:

for you and others

:saddd::saddd::saddd:

who might follow you.

:dot:

You display the same attitude that Martin Luther had while being an unreconciled monk.

OH NO!!! :O_O::O_O::O_O: OH NO!!!

He beat himself up until he understood justification by faith alone.

No WONDER he became a Protestant! :abanana:

Who could POSSIBLY blame him?? :dunno:

Why sheesh-willy-willikers and his whole gang!

So Menno, I think I get it now -
I have to go and find whips and chains and beat myself
until I finally figure out that
we are Justified by Faith Alone
instead of by God???

:yourock:

_____________________________________________

Menno -

Please forgive me my humor with your post...

I am too sinful to take it seriously...

You deserve a serious reply...

May this effort of humor be a start of that reply...

You are my brother...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Mar 5, 2019

Andrew said:
So it's impossible for a Christian to sin or commit the same sin twice? Is there accidental sins?
I believe the Holy Spirit in you will convict you and you will feel sudden sorrow but grace allows for a maturing growth in the Christian so where they are weak and stumble the Spirit does not flee but comforts you in the process of maturity.
Remember this, if you say you have no sin you are a liar. The Father will RAISE you to perfection, but if I utter a bad word more than once in my Christian life well I guess I'll just live life in fear because im going to hell after this :/

I forward the case for repentance and get accused of denying Salvation for unrepented sins?

You can easily experience the departure of the Holy Spirit by deliberately embracing your sin (you know the one) and not repenting of it...

You can NOT SO EASILY regain the Holy Spirit by then repenting of that sin...

It can take up to 7 years of repentance and is a worthy struggle...

I do NOT recommend that you do so sin...

But IF you should do so, I DO recommend that you repent of it however long it takes...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Mar 5, 2019

Josiah said:
Unrelated to this thread, but wrongly participating in the hijack (lol)....

I hold that it IS possible to "fall from faith" and thus become "unsaved". But I do NOT hold that one can save self. So, no, holding we can "fall" does NOT mean we can work ourselves saved.

Using physical life as an illustration, I could not work myself alive. Life was GIVEN to me (via means) some 9 months prior to my birthday... but I can commit suicide. I don't think that's done by sinning... it's done by renouncing faith. Thus, like 99.9% of Christians (100% before Calvin), I reject OSAS and hold that where Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide is in place, so is justification. Where it is absent, so is justification.

Now, to the point: No, I do not hold that demons will repent and believe....

I ran across a theologoumenon that asserted that demons could repent until Christ's Resurrection, and that now it is no longer possible...

I did not study it, so cannot give you more...

Arsenios

MennoSota · Mar 5, 2019

Arsenios said:
I described the loss of Salvation by deliberately and wholeheartedly embracing a sin...
That loss is the apparent departure of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...
It is actually the departure of the person from the Holy Spirit by turning from God and embracing a sin...
And from this turning away from God, God departs...

And by repentance He will return, IF ONLY he should repent from that embracing of sin by deliberately sinning...

:empathy:

:saddd::saddd::saddd:

:dot:

OH NO!!! :O_O::O_O::O_O: OH NO!!!

No WONDER he became a Protestant! :abanana:

Who could POSSIBLY blame him?? :dunno:

Why sheesh-willy-willikers and his whole gang!

So Menno, I think I get it now -
I have to go and find whips and chains and beat myself
until I finally figure out that
we are Justified by Faith Alone
instead of by God???

:yourock:

_____________________________________________

Menno -

Please forgive me my humor with your post...

I am too sinful to take it seriously...

You deserve a serious reply...

May this effort of humor be a start of that reply...

You are my brother...

Arsenios

Arsenios, you deflect from the very real indication that you are not saved by grace.
Your teaching is legalism and merit to gain salvation and to retain it. You make your own willful repentance the arbitrator of your relationship with God. God becomes secondary to your self and your behavior.
I truly am afraid you are dead in your trespasses and sins. You have no connection to Jesus, the giver and sustainer of life. You have traded one form of atheism for another form of self reliance. This is not good. I wish God would take the scales off your eyes.

Andrew · Mar 5, 2019

Arsenios said:
I forward the case for repentance and get accused of denying Salvation for unrepented sins?

You can easily experience the departure of the Holy Spirit by deliberately embracing your sin (you know the one) and not repenting of it...

You can NOT SO EASILY regain the Holy Spirit by then repenting of that sin...

It can take up to 7 years of repentance and is a worthy struggle...

I do NOT recommend that you do so sin...

But IF you should do so, I DO recommend that you repent of it however long it takes...

Arsenios

You sin seven times a day, plus I never said anything against repenting, "let he who steals steal no more" ..there are some things I used to do that I just can't do anymore since I received the Holy Ghost, but if I say I am perfectly Holy and sinless I would be a liar, I may be 'blameless' however but I am still a sinner yet a maturing-in-grace Christian... in that sense I imagine myself much wiser and closer to perfection in my older days than I am today, to think that I hit the mark everytime and need no further guidance by grace I stand convicted of lying (which is a sin so...)
Anyway, I don't believe a small sin and a big sin are any different, you apparently do and that is your works salvation... you are far worse than your teachers or yourself lead you to believe, accept that, accept that Jesus is enough and that God has chosen you.. and your 'works' btw are not yours but His 'workmanship' abiding in you.

Arsenios · Mar 5, 2019

Andrew said:
Anyway, I don't believe a small sin and a big sin are any different,

So rape and murder of a child is no different than saying a cuss word when you stub your toe???

you apparently do and that is your works salvation...

That's the strongest argument in favor of works salvation I have ever seen then...

But I don't buy it - God saves man, man does not save himself by works...

you are far worse than your teachers or yourself lead you to believe,
accept that,

You sound like someone who has also "seen" the extent of your fallen sinfulness...

I was given that vision once...

Cried for the better part of a week, and immediately began attending Services regularly...

Talk about motivational!

Arsenios

Arsenios · Mar 5, 2019

MennoSota said:
Arsenios, you deflect from the very real indication that you are not saved by grace.

I am only saved by Grace...

Thank-you for your prayers for me...

Arsenios

MennoSota · Mar 5, 2019

Arsenios said:
I am only saved by Grace...

Thank-you for your prayers for me...

Arsenios

You say that, but you also say you're saved by repentance and damned by your sin. It cannot be both. It cannot be salvation by your own will power and salvation by grace through faith at the same time.
You are welcome. I do not wish you to perish by attempting works to please God unto salvation. God tells you that you fall utterly short. You have no hope in your repentance or your attempted obedience. It isn't enough to save you. It will never be enough. It must be God and God alone, both saving you and keeping you.

Arsenios · Mar 5, 2019

MennoSota said:
You ... also say you're saved by repentance and damned by your sin.

I am saved BY God THROUGH the Faith which disciples repentance...

The Faith of Christ disciples a life of repentance from sin to the end...

Arsenios

Andrew · Mar 6, 2019

Arsenios said:
So rape and murder of a child is no different than saying a cuss word when you stub your toe???

All sin is sin in Gods eyes is what I meant

Arsenios · Mar 9, 2019

Andrew said:
All sin is sin in Gods eyes is what I meant

How would you even begin to know that?

Remember Christ saying if anyone should cause one of these little ones to stumble it would be better had he never been born?

That Sodom and Gomorrah would have done better than the Jews...

All sin is graded, my brother...

That is why we say that God knows the heart...

Arsenios

psalms 91 · Mar 9, 2019

Christ also said that if you break the least of these (commandments) then you break them all, so I guess all sin is the same in Gods eyes.

Lucian Hodoboc · Mar 9, 2019

Arsenios said:
How would you even begin to know that?

Remember Christ saying if anyone should cause one of these little ones to stumble it would be better had he never been born?

That Sodom and Gomorrah would have done better than the Jews...

All sin is graded, my brother...

That is why we say that God knows the heart...

Arsenios

psalms 91 said:
Christ also said that if you break the least of these (commandments) then you break them all, so I guess all sin is the same in Gods eyes.

Or maybe The Bible contains obvious contradictions, but Christians are not willing to admit this fact because they don't know how to reconcile it with the belief that it's an infallible book.. :|

psalms 91 · Mar 9, 2019

Lucian Hodoboc said:
Or maybe The Bible contains obvious contradictions, but Christians are not willing to admit this fact because they don't know how to reconcile it with the belief that it's an infallible book.. :|

Or they cant figure it out in scripture?

Lucian Hodoboc · Mar 9, 2019

Figure what out? What do you refer to when you say "it"?

Andrew · Mar 9, 2019

Arsenios said:
How would you even begin to know that?

Remember Christ saying if anyone should cause one of these little ones to stumble it would be better had he never been born?

That Sodom and Gomorrah would have done better than the Jews...

All sin is graded, my brother...

That is why we say that God knows the heart...

Arsenios

Sorry my friend but you are completely wrong, this is solely the reason you follow a works salvation. If Hitler would have repented he would have been saved, meanwhile if Mother Teresa would have never repented she would not be saved, understood?
Remember how many Christians/Jews Paul persecuted?
There is no graded sin, sin is sin is sin

psalms 91 · Mar 9, 2019

psalms 91 said:
Or they cant figure it out in scripture?

How to correlate what is perceived as error, it are the contradictions that dont exist if you go deep enough

Can demons be saved if they repent?

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