Why don't Muslims believe Jesus died on the cross?

Andrew · Feb 12, 2019

I like a good debate and often listen to them in the morning at work to pass the time when prepping for the day.
This morning I was listening to a debate between a Muslim and a Christian regarding the death of Christ on the cross.
Turns out it's all a matter of perspective to the Muslim, the Muslim ended up agreeing that it was Christ on the cross but that Christ didn't die.
This is because for the Muslim they are taught that any martyr of Allah never actually dies (although it appears so) but that they are gathered up to Allah as the body 'sleeps'... thus they consider Jesus a prophet and a martyr and refuse to believe that Christ went to hades to conquer hell for his people.
Jesus had to descend to hell to be 'at all places' and defeat death, this is where Muslims stumble because they believe that Christ was taken up to Heaven those three days as his body 'slept'.
In their eyes, when a Muslim 'dies' as a martyr (or follower of Allah) it only appears that they died but are rather spiritually taken up to Allah alive as the body 'sleeps' and waits for resurrection.
It's critical for us Christians to know that Jesus conquered Hell for us, that he did not unite with God once he gave up the ghost but that he descended to hell three days and was resurrected on the third day and eventually ascended into Heaven, defeating death and hell once and for all and atoning for the sins of the believer.

Albion · Feb 12, 2019

The point (we might say) of Christ having died on the cross but come back in three days is that he did NOT just follow the script that any other person who might be executed for some reason would follow--die and you're dead. They cannot accept this without accepting Christianity instead of Mohammedanism.

Interestingly enough, however, they accept most of the rest of the Jesus of Nazareth story, although there is no reason for them to accept it other than to incorporate Jesus into their religion as a prophet...but then they turn around and reject the events that followed the Crucifixion of the same Jesus as recorded in the same source (the Bible).

.

Andrew · Feb 12, 2019

Albion said:
The point (we might say) of Christ having died on the cross but come back in three days is that he did NOT just follow the script that any other person who might be executed for some reason would follow--die and you're dead. They cannot accept this without accepting Christianity instead of Mohammedanism. Interestingly enough, however, they accept the rest of the Jesus of Nazareth story, by an large, although there is no reason for them to accept it either, not an reject the events following the Crucifixion.

Exactly, I would like to ask them what Jesus was a prophet of... why do they even consider him a prophet if everything he taught is a complete contradiction to Islam?
The Quran is supposably footed in the Bible yet it is totally worthless to them.

tango · Feb 12, 2019

Albion said:
The point (we might say) of Christ having died on the cross but come back in three days is that he did NOT just follow the script that any other person who might be executed for some reason would follow--die and you're dead. They cannot accept this without accepting Christianity instead of Mohammedanism.

Interestingly enough, however, they accept most of the rest of the Jesus of Nazareth story, although there is no reason for them to accept it other than to incorporate Jesus into their religion as a prophet...but then they turn around and reject the events that followed the Crucifixion of the same Jesus as recorded in the same source (the Bible).

.

I've often heard Muslims say that God gave us the Old Testament but we corrupted it, so God gave us the New Testament and we corrupted that too. Finally they say God gave the Qu'ran, and despite being unable to protect the OT and NT from corruption somehow managed to protect the Qu'ran from the same fate.

As far as Jesus is concerned, if they claim that Jesus was hung on the cross but taken down before death they can conveniently dodge the awkward questions of what happened to the body. If someone accepts Jesus died on the cross they have to either explain the resurrection, or explain what happened to the body.

Albion · Feb 12, 2019

Andrew said:
The Quran is supposably footed in the Bible yet it is totally worthless to them.

It may supposedly be rooted in the Bible, but it is little more than a collection of articles about Mohammad's advice on religion, politics, healthy living, finances, and as well the Jewish and Christian faiths, which he comments on by name. There is no chronology to it, no historical development, nothing of that sort.

Andrew · Feb 12, 2019

tango said:
I've often heard Muslims say that God gave us the Old Testament but we corrupted it, so God gave us the New Testament and we corrupted that too. Finally they say God gave the Qu'ran, and despite being unable to protect the OT and NT from corruption somehow managed to protect the Qu'ran from the same fate.

As far as Jesus is concerned, if they claim that Jesus was hung on the cross but taken down before death they can conveniently dodge the awkward questions of what happened to the body. If someone accepts Jesus died on the cross they have to either explain the resurrection, or explain what happened to the body.

Maybe they believe that Jesus was a yogi, like the gnostics have been teaching, Islam adapts politely to Gnosticism as the Quran teaches the Gnostic nativity of Jesus, a talking baby born under a palm tree.
It is rather impotent for them to claim that Jesus went to heaven and came back for his body and went back up to heaven yet it is exactly what they imply.

tango · Feb 12, 2019

Andrew said:
Maybe they believe that Jesus was a yoga, like the gnostics have been teaching, Islam adapts politely to Gnosticism as the Quran teaches the Gnostic nativity of Jesus, a talking baby and born under a palm tree.
It is rather impotent for them to claim that he went to heaven and came back for his body and went back to heaven yet it is exactly what they imply.

You never know when you might need a body.

Andrew · Feb 12, 2019

Albion said:
It may supposedly be rooted in the Bible, but it is little more than a collection of articles about Mohammad's advice on religion, politics, healthy living, finances, and as well the Jewish and Christian faiths, which he comments on by name. There is no chronology to it, no historical development, nothing of that sort.

Yep, complete fables stacked and packed on top of each other

Pedrito · Feb 24, 2019

==============================================================================================

Post #1:

Why don't Muslims believe Jesus died on the cross?

Because it’s against their religion to believe that. That’s why. It is that simple.

Just like it’s against the religion of those who believe in Believer’s Baptism to accept Infant Baptism.

And against the religion of those who practice Infant Baptism to agree with Believer’s Baptism that the excludes infants.

And just as it may be considered inappropriate by some to accept a particular Lutheran perspective, that babies are conscious of their baptism and have faith at that moment because a certain gentleman said that it was so (or words to that effect.)

Yet, by way of contrast, another Lutheran perspective denies the belief and teaching of that very same gentleman, that the “soul”, however he perceived it, is inextricably integrated with the body (it would seem that he accepted the original, Divinely Inspired, Hebrew meaning), and that it dies with the body, and that it comes to life again with the body at the future resurrection time.

==============================================================================================

Religion is such a strange thing.

And people can be taught to believe almost anything. Can’t they?

Whether or not they pay lip service to the Bible.

==============================================================================================

Albion · Feb 24, 2019

Pedrito said:
==============================================================================================

Post #1:

Because it’s against their religion to believe that. That’s why. It is that simple.[/B]

As simple as that sounds, I agree that that is the answer. To accept as true the account given in the Bible of Him rising from the dead (and what follows) would be to give a back-handed but unavoidable acceptance of His claims to divinity.

psalms 91 · Feb 24, 2019

Albion said:
As simple as that sounds, I agree that that is the answer. To accept as true the account given in the Bible of Him rising from the dead (and what follows) would be to give a back-handed but unavoidable acceptance of His claims to divinity.

And a rejection of Mohammad

Arsenios · Feb 24, 2019

The question I have for Muslims is tri-fold:

[1] Do you know the Arabic word for LOVE? (yes)

[2] How many times does this word appear in the Koran? (zero)

[3] Are there any other questions? (huh??)

Christianity is the Faith of Love...

The Koran does not even know the word...

Take your pick...

Arsenios

atpollard · Feb 24, 2019

Qur’an Sura (Chapter) 4, verses 153-158

153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us God plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of God’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, God has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, God raised him up to Himself. God is Mighty and Wise.

The Qur’an, which cannot be wrong, written by the final prophet Mohammad, who cannot be spoken against, has said that Jesus did not die on the cross. The matter is thus settled for the followers of Islam.

Andrew · Feb 24, 2019

atpollard said:
Qur’an Sura (Chapter) 4, verses 153-158

153. The People of the Scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky. They had asked Moses for something even greater. They said, “Show us God plainly.” The thunderbolt struck them for their wickedness. Then they took the calf for worship, even after the clear proofs had come to them. Yet We pardoned that, and We gave Moses a clear authority.
154. And We raised the Mount above them in accordance with their covenant, and We said to them, “Enter the gate humbly”, and We said to them, “Do not violate the Sabbath”, and We received from them a solemn pledge.
155. But for their violation of their covenant, and their denial of God’s revelations, and their killing of the prophets unjustly, and their saying, “Our minds are closed.” In fact, God has sealed them for their disbelief, so they do not believe, except for a few.
156. And for their faithlessness, and their saying against Mary a monstrous slander.
157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.
158. Rather, God raised him up to Himself. God is Mighty and Wise.

The Qur’an, which cannot be wrong, written by the final prophet Mohammad, who cannot be spoken against, has said that Jesus did not die on the cross. The matter is thus settled for the followers of Islam.

A muslim would say that because Jesus was a prophet he died a martyrs death which is not death, it only appears so, but the soul is quickened up to Allah... They reject that Jesus went to hell for three days and not taken up to God after he drew his last breathe

atpollard · Feb 25, 2019

Andrew said:
A muslim would say that because Jesus was a prophet he died a martyrs death which is not death, it only appears so, but the soul is quickened up to Allah... They reject that Jesus went to hell for three days and not taken up to God after he drew his last breathe

How the Qur’an is interpreted is based on the Hadith. The Qur’an would be like the red letter part of our Gospels, and the Hadith would be comparable to the letters from the Apostles and Early Church Fathers. Different branches of Islam follow different “Early Church Fathers” advice on what the Qur’an actually means.

Some believe that Thomas (called the twin because he looked like Jesus) died in Jesus’ place. Other’s believe that god (allah) placed a delusion over the people watching so the saw someone die who was not Jesus.

It is only the most modern, liberal interpretation of the Qur’an that spiritualizes the verses so that they mean Jesus physically died, but the mission or word of god did not. Shiite and Suni Muslims (the two largest branches in the world today) both reject the spiritual interpretation and the Muslims who make such claims are beheaded alongside Christians and Jews by the same extremists.

So it is a nice view, but it is the “Jehovah’s Witnesses” version of Islam. [as most Christian denominations do not view JWs as being ‘real Christians’, most Muslims do not view the ‘liberal/spiritual’ Islam that grew out of India as being ‘real Muslims’.]

Since I believe that Jesus is God Incarnate, my only opinion is that they are all (liberal Muslim, conservative Muslim and Jehovah’s Witnesses) mistaken about the identity of Jesus the Christ. Roman Catholics and Lutherans and Eastern Orthodox may differ with me on many issues, but they all appear to know who Jesus is, so we are part of the same body.

Why don't Muslims believe Jesus died on the cross?

Andrew

Matt 18:15

Albion

Well-known member

Andrew

Matt 18:15

tango

... and you shall live ...

Albion

Well-known member

Andrew

Matt 18:15

tango

... and you shall live ...

Andrew

Matt 18:15

Pedrito

Well-known member

Albion

Well-known member

psalms 91

Well-known member

Arsenios

Well-known member

atpollard

Well-known member

Andrew

Matt 18:15

atpollard

Well-known member