Proverbs 26:4-5

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Proverbs 26:4-5
4
Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
5
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.


How do you distinguish between the two?
 
MennoSota

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...I'm afraid to reply...[emoji848][emoji57][emoji6][emoji39]
 
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Lämmchen said:
Proverbs 26:4-5
4
Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
5
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.


How do you distinguish between the two?
Click to expand...
.
2ed69e542a76ec9853859713f0adfa74.jpg
 
Arsenios

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Lämmchen said:
Proverbs 26:4-5
4
Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
5
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.


How do you distinguish between the two?
Click to expand...

Here we are instructed to answer a fool according to his folly...
Not in order that we become like him...
But in order that he not become wise in his own eyes...

Two ina (in order that) clauses conjoined by alla (but instead)

God Bless the Septuagint!


Arsenios
 
tango

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Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
 
Arsenios

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tango said:
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Click to expand...

I have found that speaking establishes foolishness far more than silence...


Arsenios
 
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==============================================================================================

Post #6:
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Click to expand...

Post #7:
I have found that speaking establishes foolishness far more than silence...
Click to expand...

Yet both spoke.;)

==============================================================================================

Post #5:
God Bless the Septuagint!
Click to expand...

The Septuagint (LXX) does express the homily of Proverbs 26:4-5 more clearly than does the Masoretic Hebrew on which our translations are generally based. Here is an LXX translation into English:
Pro 26:4 Do not give an answer to a fool according to that one's folly, lest likened you should become to him!
Pro 26:5 But answer a fool to the folly of that one! lest he should appear wise of himself.

As Arsenios expressed it (ibid):
Here we are instructed to answer a fool according to his folly...
Not in order that we become like him...
But in order that he not become wise in his own eyes...

Two ina (in order that) clauses conjoined by alla (but instead)
Click to expand...

==============================================================================================
 
tango

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Arsenios said:
Here we are instructed to answer a fool according to his folly...
Not in order that we become like him...
But in order that he not become wise in his own eyes...

Two ina (in order that) clauses conjoined by alla (but instead)
Click to expand...

This explains Proverbs 26:4-5 very well, that instead of answering a fool (any denier of Yahweh God, or of basis for trusting faith in God) according to his folly that we would be like the fool, we should answer according to such folly that he won't be wise in his own eyes. I think the application of this is to not directly answer the foolishness, dignifying it as anything valid, but to speak of something with parallel foolishness obvious enough that it exposes the foolish reasoning. This would be effective when it works. If the fool continues without seeing that exposed, it is better not to remain there answering anymore.

God Bless the Septuagint!
Click to expand...

I replied to that assumption of superiority of the Septuagint elsewhere. I see flaws in it, rather like in the assumption for supporting KJV Only.
 
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FredVB said:
This explains Proverbs 26:4-5 very well, that instead of answering a fool (any denier of Yahweh God, or of basis for trusting faith in God) according to his folly that we would be like the fool, we should answer according to such folly that he won't be wise in his own eyes. I think the application of this is to not directly answer the foolishness, dignifying it as anything valid, but to speak of something with parallel foolishness obvious enough that it exposes the foolish reasoning. This would be effective when it works. If the fool continues without seeing that exposed, it is better not to remain there answering anymore.
Click to expand...

That is how I took it...

I replied to that assumption of the superiority of the Septuagint elsewhere.
I see flaws in it, rather like in the assumption for supporting KJV Only.
Click to expand...

Well, to begin with, everyone knows that God's Original Language is KJV, OK?
God speaks KJV...
All other versions are versions of God's Native Tongue, KJV, Got it?

The problem with English translation of the Masoretes is that they left the meaning obscure...

So going to the Jewish translation into Greek afforded cognitive clarification...

Because the Jewish translators were fluent in Greek...


Arsenios
 
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Lämmchen said:
Proverbs 26:4-5
4
Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
5
Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.


How do you distinguish between the two?
Click to expand...

You distinguish by treating the passage as one rather than two proverbs. Like this:
Do not respond to the foolish according to his folly, lest you become like him; respond to the foolish according to his folly, lest he imagine himself to be wise.
(Proverbs 26:4-5)​

The advice then is not to respond in kind with a foolish rejoinder but instead respond with wisdom so that the fool will not think himself wise in the foolish things he's said (or written).

adding some internal commentary to the verses it can be worded thus:
Do not respond to the foolish according to his folly, lest you become like him [by speaking foolishly yourself]; respond [with wisdom crafted to refute his folly and so show] to the foolish according [that his words are folly, as his folly requires, thus showing the foolishness] to [of] his folly, lest he imagine himself to be wise.
(Proverbs 26:4-5)​

But I have added and changed several words in the text so you may disagree, but I think it is a reasonable reading of the passage.

Kudos to Arsenios for citing the LXX (translated into English)
Arsenios said:
Here we are instructed to answer a fool according to his folly...
Not in order that we become like him...
But in order that he not become wise in his own eyes...

Two ina (in order that) clauses conjoined by alla (but instead)

God Bless the Septuagint!


Arsenios
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
FredVB

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Arsenios said:
Well, to begin with, everyone knows that God's Original Language is KJV, OK?
God speaks KJV...
All other versions are versions of God's Native Tongue, KJV, Got it?

The problem with English translation of the Masoretes is that they left the meaning obscure...

So going to the Jewish translation into Greek afforded cognitive clarification...

Because the Jewish translators were fluent in Greek...
Click to expand...

Good textual criticism will consider all the sources. The Septuagint is not superior text to the Masoretic, even while the Masoretic is not perfect, and we have the scripture manuscripts from the Dead Sea Scrolls to be considered as well. I posted information I found for this here earlier http://christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?6617-OT-post-flood-genealogy-off-a-tad-according-to-original-hebrew-text&p=158996#post158996
 
A

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E693F945-C320-43AD-BCC9-B8C1FC47BCB8.jpg.
 
FredVB

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atpollard said:
View attachment 1158.
Click to expand...

The image is nice. Is it relating to the subject of Proverbs 26:4-5? Or is it relating to the Masoretic, the Septuagint, or other documents that are used for derived english translations? The image is of a page of an english translation, in the beginning rather than proverbs themselves. Maybe there is connection relating to the subjects that I didn't see.

The wisdom of God is beyond our understanding and we are not right to presume we can understand it. But we can trust the revelation from God for us to be true. The spiritual things we need to know are all included in it.
 
A

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FredVB said:
The image is nice. Is it relating to the subject of Proverbs 26:4-5? Or is it relating to the Masoretic, the Septuagint, or other documents that are used for derived english translations? The image is of a page of an english translation, in the beginning rather than proverbs themselves. Maybe there is connection relating to the subjects that I didn't see.

The wisdom of God is beyond our understanding and we are not right to presume we can understand it. But we can trust the revelation from God for us to be true. The spiritual things we need to know are all included in it.
Click to expand...

It was an uploaded image that was part of a quote and response. I deleted the quote and response, but was unable to delete the post or the image.
 
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FredVB said:
Good textual criticism will consider all the sources. The Septuagint is not superior text to the Masoretic, even while the Masoretic is not perfect, and we have the scripture manuscripts from the Dead Sea Scrolls to be considered as well. I posted information I found for this here earlier http://christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?6617-OT-post-flood-genealogy-off-a-tad-according-to-original-hebrew-text&p=158996#post158996
Click to expand...

Quite true. I find that any translation from the original language, even the most revered such as the KJV or the Masoretic text, cannot fully convey the original meaning of the text. If one is not fluent in the original language then a variety of translations (of which we English-readers have a multitude) enable one to develop a better understanding.
 
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