I used this quote on another thread, but it would seem to be very appropriate here...
2Co 6:1-10
We then, as workers together with Him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
Is Paul speaking Spiritually here?
What does he mean: "As deceivers yet true"?
Or "As dying, and behold we live"?
How can you possess what you do not have?
Arsenios
Thayer said:
ὡς (Treg. (by mistake) in Matthew 24:38 ὡς; cf. Winers Grammar, 462 (431); Chandler § 934, and references in Ebeling, Lex. Homer, under the word, p. 494b bottom), an adverbial form of the relative pronoun ὅς, ἡ, ὁ which is used in comparison, as, like as, even as, according as, in the same manner as, etc. (German wie); but it also assumes the nature of a conjunction, of time, of purpose, and of consequence. On its use in the Greek writings cf. Klotz ad Devar. 2:2, chapter xxxv., p. 756ff; (Liddell and Scott, under the word).
I. ὡς as an adverb of comparison;
1. It answers to some demonstrative word (οὕτως, or the like), either in the same clause or in another member of the same sentence (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 53, 5):
[not this]
2. ὡς with the word or words forming the comparison is so subjoined to a preceding verb that οὕτως must be mentally inserted before the same. When thus used ὡς refers
[this]
a. to the manner ('form') of the action expressed by the finite verb, and is equivalent to in the same manner as, after the fashion of; it is joined in this way to the subject (nominative) of the verb:
[not this]
b. ὡς joined to a verb makes reference to the 'substance' of the act expressed by the verb, i. e. the action designated by the verb is itself said to be done ὡς, in like manner (just) as, something else:
[not this]
c. ὡς makes reference to similarity or equality, in such expressions as εἶναι ὡς τινα, i. e. 'to be like' or 'equal to' one,
[not this]
d. ὡς so makes reference to the quality of a person, thing, or action, as to be equivalent to such as, exactly like, as it were. German als; and
[this]
α. to a quality which really belongs to the person or thing:
[not this]
[THIS:] β. to a quality which is supposed, pretended, reigned, assumed: ὡς ἁμαρτωλός κρίνομαι, Romans 3:7; ὡς πονηρόν, Luke 6:22; add, 1 Corinthians 4:7; 1 Corinthians 8:7; 2 Corinthians 6:8-10; 2 Corinthians 11:15; 2 Corinthians 13:7; 1 Peter 2:12; frequently it can be rendered as if, as though, Acts 3:12; Acts 23:15, 20; Acts 27:30; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 10:14; 2 Corinthians 11:17; Colossians 2:20; Hebrews 11:27; Hebrews 13:3; ἐπιστολῆς ὡς δἰ ἡμῶν, namely, γεγραμμενης, 2 Thessalonians 2:2.
Therefore ...
[2Co 6:8 NKJV] 8 by honor and dishonor, by evil report and good report; as deceivers, and [yet] true;
can also be rendered as ...
[2Co 6:8 NLT] 8 We serve God whether people honor us or despise us, whether they slander us or praise us. We are honest, but they call us impostors.
[2Co 6:8 NIV] 8 through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors;
[2Co 6:8 ESV] 8 through honor and dishonor, through slander and praise. We are treated as impostors, and yet are true;
[2Co 6:8 CSB] 8 through glory and dishonor, through slander and good report; regarded as deceivers, yet true;
[2Co 6:8 NASB] 8 by glory and dishonor, by evil report and good report; [regarded] as deceivers and yet true;
[2Co 6:8 NET] 8 through glory and dishonor, through slander and praise; regarded as impostors, and yet true;
[2Co 6:8 RSV] 8 in honor and dishonor, in ill repute and good repute. We are treated as impostors, and yet are true;
******
BENGEL remarks "Through glory and dishonor (disgrace)," namely, from those in authority, and accruing to us present. "By," or "through evil report and good report," from the multitude, and affecting us absent.
FAUSSET remarks "Regarded 'as deceivers' by those who, not knowing ( 2Cr 6:9 ), dishonor and give us an evil report; 'as true,' by those who 'know' ( 2Cr 6:9 ) us in the real 'glory' of our ministry. In proportion as one has more or less of glory and good report, in that degree has he more or less of dishonor and evil report."
GAUSSEN remarks "The apostles combine the highest offices with the humblest exterior: as everything in the Church was to be cast in the mould of death and resurrection, the cardinal principle throughout Christianity."
DAVID GUZIK COMMENTARY:
By honor and dishonor, by evil report and good report; as deceivers, and yet true; as unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and behold we live; as chastened, and yet not killed; as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things. In concluding his resume’, Paul will list his references, describing both what the world thought of him and what God thought of him.
i. The world (including the worldly Corinthian Christians) described Paul with words like: dishonor... evil report... deceivers... unknown... dying... chastened... sorrowful... poor... having nothing.
ii. In His reference, God described Paul with words like: honor... good report... true... well known... behold we live... not killed... always rejoicing... making many rich... possessing all things.
iii. Which description was true – the world’s or God’s? 2 Corinthians 4:18 gives the answer.
According to the things which are seen, the world’s estimation was correct. According to the things which are not seen, God’s estimation was correct. Which estimation is more important to you?
MATTHEW HENRY COMMENTARY:
By a due temper and behaviour under all the variety of conditions in this world, v. 8-10. We must expect to meet with many alterations of our circumstances and conditions in this world; and it will be a great evidence of our integrity if we preserve a right temper of mind, and duly behave ourselves, under them all. The apostles met with honour and dishonour, good report and evil report: good men in this world must expect to meet with some dishonour and reproaches, to balance their honour and esteem; and we stand in need of the grace of God to arm us against the temptations of honour on the one hand, so as to bear good report without pride, and of dishonour on the other hand, so as to bear reproaches without impatience or recrimination. It should seem that persons differently represented the apostles in their reports; that some represented them as the best, and others as the worst, of men: by some they were counted deceivers, and run down as such; by others as true, preaching the gospel of truth, and men who were true to the trust reposed in them. They were slighted by the men of the world as unknown, men of no figure or account, not worth taking notice of; yet in all the churches of Christ they were well known, and of great account: they were looked upon as dying, being killed all the day long, and their interest was thought to be a dying interest; "and yet behold,' says the apostle, "we live, and live comfortably, and bear up cheerfully under all our hardships, and go on conquering and to conquer.' They were chastened, and often fell under the lash of the law, yet not killed: and though it was thought that they were sorrowful, a company of mopish and melancholy men, always sighing and mourning, yet they were always rejoicing in God, and had the greatest reason to rejoice always. They were despised as poor, upon the account of their poverty in this world; and yet they made many rich, by preaching the unsearchable riches of Christ. They were thought to have nothing, and silver and gold they had none, houses and lands they had none; yet they possessed all things: they had nothing in this world, but they had a treasure in heaven. Their effects lay in another country, in another world. They had nothing in themselves, but possessed all things in Christ. Such a paradox is a Christian's life, and through such a variety of conditions and reports lies our way to heaven; and we should be careful in all these things to approve ourselves to God.
