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    Christian Theology - Thread: Paul's description of salvation "in Christ"

    1. #21
      MennoSota's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      He is not describing life at the 5 and dime...

      He is showing you what a spiritually lived Life looks like...

      You are welcome to book-end or even to edit quotes of mine...

      But what is a book-end and where did you place it?


      Arsenios
      He is outlining the actual life we should live that glorifies God who became our substitute upon the cross. The Corinthians were still living in sin, despite being claimed by Christ.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      He is outlining the actual life we should live that glorifies God...
      Here is where he does THAT:

      1Co 4:9-16
      For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death:
      for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
      We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ;
      we are weak, but ye are strong;
      ye are honourable, but we are despised.
      Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst,
      and are naked, and are buffeted,
      and have no certain dwellingplace;
      And labour, working with our own hands:
      being reviled, we bless;
      being persecuted, we suffer it:
      Being defamed, we intreat:
      we are made as the filth of the world,
      and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
      I write not these things to shame you,
      but as my beloved sons I warn you.
      For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ,
      yet have ye not many Fathers:
      for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the Gospel.
      Wherefore I beseech you,
      be ye followers of me.


      You can even see at the end
      where he beseeches them
      to be followers of their Father Paul...


      Arsenios

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      Here is where he does THAT:

      1Co 4:9-16
      For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death:
      for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
      We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ;
      we are weak, but ye are strong;
      ye are honourable, but we are despised.
      Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst,
      and are naked, and are buffeted,
      and have no certain dwellingplace;
      And labour, working with our own hands:
      being reviled, we bless;
      being persecuted, we suffer it:
      Being defamed, we intreat:
      we are made as the filth of the world,
      and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
      I write not these things to shame you,
      but as my beloved sons I warn you.
      For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ,
      yet have ye not many Fathers:
      for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the Gospel.
      Wherefore I beseech you,
      be ye followers of me.


      You can even see at the end
      where he beseeches them
      to be followers of their Father Paul...


      Arsenios
      Do you imagine Paul only has to do this once with the Corinthians?

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      [B]
      So, MennoSota was correct when he said:
      The Spirit of God does a wonderful job of immersing (baptizing) us into Christ so that we are entirely immersed into Him.

      And Arsenios was overlooking relevant Scripture when he made his statements [blank lines omitted]:
      CHRIST commanded the Apostles to disciple all the nations, baptizing them...
      YOU say the Holy Spirit does the baptizing...
      Forgive me if I take Christ's word and not your opinion...


      ...Commencing with the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit in power mode* (baptism of the Holy Spirit) was given to believers,
      ...There is an undeniable example of people receiving the Holy Spirit in power mode prior to baptism.
      The reception of the Holy Spirit in Power is both a Pre-Incarnational and a Post-Incarnational event...
      It is simply the moving of the Holy Spirit empowering the person it is given to...
      It is NOT Baptism into Christ...
      Baptism into Christ is the Re-Birth of the person conjoined with Christ as a New Creation in Christ...
      What Baptism gives is something Adam never had...

      So in this sense, in the subjective terms of experiencing Salvation in the Old vs the New Testament,
      there is no difference in the experience of the Power of the Holy Spirit...
      The difference is in the Hypostatic makeup of the person as a member of Christ's Body...
      We are Christed as persons, and this literally means anointed...
      We are Sealed in the Holy Spirit, becoming the living, and not the dead...
      Moses remained in Adam, even though saturated in the Holy Spirit...
      Hence Christ said the LEAST in the Kingdom of Heaven...
      Is greater that the GREATEST of the OT Prophets...

      You see, it is being conjoined as a New Person with God that IS Salvation in Christ-God...
      Those so conjoined ARE the New Creation, Members of the Body of Christ...
      They are the Living and will be judged according to one standard...
      Those NOT so Baptized are the dead, and will be judged by a lesser standard...
      For Christ will judge the Living and the dead...

      But the presence or absence of the Power of the Holy Spirit in the behavior of believers...
      Only demonstrated God's purposing in them...
      It is nowhere described as Baptism BY the Holy Spirit...
      Christ Baptizes us INTO the Body of Christ BY His Servants IN His Body...
      And He does so IN the Holy Spirit...
      The subjective experience of the person being so Baptized...
      The experience of the Holy Power of God...
      Is NOT the defining feature of Baptism as Re-Birth into God...
      It may not even exist for many...


      Arsenios
      Last edited by Arsenios; 02-11-2019 at 11:45 AM.

    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Do you imagine Paul only has to do this once with the Corinthians?
      I do know He has to do it 10 times a day every day of the week with the likes of you and me...

      But again I wax poetic!


      Arsenios

    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      ================================================== ============================================

      [COLOR="#000000"]Albion (Post #16):


      So, MennoSota was correct when he said:
      The Spirit of God does a wonderful job of immersing (baptizing) us into Christ so that we are entirely immersed into Him.
      No, he was wrong about that. Maybe another reading of my post will help.

      And Arsenios was overlooking relevant Scripture when he made his statements [blank lines omitted]:
      CHRIST commanded the Apostles to disciple all the nations, baptizing them...
      YOU say the Holy Spirit does the baptizing...
      Forgive me if I take Christ's word and not your opinion...
      Again, you need to practice your reading skills by taking a look at my post again--and that of Arsenio probably as well. I did not say what you claim here.

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    8. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Do you imagine Paul only has to do this once with the Corinthians?
      Do you bless those who revile you?


      Arsenios

    9. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Do you imagine Paul only has to do this once with the Corinthians?

      Are you made as the filth of the world?


      Arsenios

    10. #29
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      Are you weak and despised?


      Arsenios

    11. #30
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      Three ad-hominum arguments above...

      All legit to my old and tired eyes...


      Arsenios

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