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    Denomination & Faith Movement Discussions - Thread: I hear - I know people who go to church but are not saved. How do you know?

    1. #21
      Lämmchen's Avatar
      Lämmchen is offline God's Lil Lamb
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      Is it worth mentioning that when this discussion got started, the point was not whether there are people in the churches who reject the Savior, but whether "there are many who go to church but are not saved."

      There's quite a difference between those two, isn't there?
      What difference do you think there is?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    2. #22
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      Rejecting the Savior

      versus

      "many" who go to church but are "not saved."


      You have to ask? For one thing, the original claim was that "many" were in the group being referred to. By the end, it had become "I haven't met one person in the churches." This was touched on by other posters earlier.


      For another (and to me the more important) point, being saved and rejecting the Savior are entirely different.

      I imagine that there are plenty of churchgoers who have never had a conversion experience, given their lives to Christ, etc, but who want to do good, want to associate with moral people, and so on, or just think that Christianity is all about those things. And this says nothing about people who are in church to find out or are interested in religion, etc. They certainly are not to be described as having "rejected" the Savior!




      .
      Last edited by Albion; 01-30-2019 at 01:15 PM.

    3. #23
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      As long as salvation depends on self (even 0.00001%) then there MUST be one (or both) of two things:

      1. A Pharisical pride for self and condemnation of others. "I'M in... you probably aren't."
      2. Terror! "I can't know if I've done enough, done it right!"

      Luther saw this in his own life.... then he read the Bible and saw something glorious.... Jesus is the Savior. No one saves themselves (in whole or in part).... thus all terror and pride and condemnation are eliminated.




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      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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    5. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      As long as salvation depends on self (even 0.00001%) then there MUST be one (or both) of two things:

      1. A Pharisical pride for self and condemnation of others. "I'M in... you probably aren't."
      2. Terror! "I can't know if I've done enough, done it right!"

      Luther saw this in his own life.... then he read the Bible and saw something glorious.... Jesus is the Savior. No one saves themselves (in whole or in part).... thus all terror and pride and condemnation are eliminated.




      .
      Yet you teach that God sends people who have been made perfect, holy and righteous with no fault, to hell.

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