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    Denomination & Faith Movement Discussions - Thread: I hear - I know people who go to church but are not saved. How do you know?

    1. #1
      Wilhemena's Avatar
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      I hear - I know people who go to church but are not saved. How do you know?

      I could make a bet that you have all heard the saying that there are many who go to church but are not saved and I can't help but want to ask you how do you know? Have they renounced our great Lord in front of you to assuredly make such a statement?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wilhemena View Post
      I could make a bet that you have all heard the saying that there are many who go to church but are not saved and I can't help but want to ask you how do you know? Have they renounced our great Lord in front of you to assuredly make such a statement?
      What made Paul confident about the Thessalonians being redeemed?
      1 Thessalonians 1:4-10
      For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia. For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything. For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

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      What did Paul say about Hymenaeus and Alexander?
      1 Timothy 1:18-20
      This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wilhemena View Post
      I could make a bet that you have all heard the saying that there are many who go to church but are not saved and I can't help but want to ask you how do you know? Have they renounced our great Lord in front of you to assuredly make such a statement?

      I agree with the implication you share here.....


      IMO, where there is faith in Jesus as our SAVIOR, there is justification. It's not the quality or quantity of faith that matters... it's not intellectual certainty or doubt or content that matters.... it's the object that matters.



      IMO, SOME can fall into this "pit" of which you speak:

      1. SOME extreme Calvinists because they cannot know if Jesus actually is their Savior (their faith may be moot)
      2. SOME Catholics because they cannot know if they've "tapped" God's help sufficiently, If they have done enough, loved enough, done their "part"
      3. SOME extreme Arminianists because they can wonder about the genuiness and quality and sincerity of their faith, whether they REALLY believe.


      But IMO, the point is JESUS. He IS the SAVIOR. He is MY Savior (cuz He died for EVERYONE, so EVEN ME is included!). My faith in HIM as the SAVIOR means I benefit from it. "Get your eyes off you, placed them on the Cross" (Old Protestant proverb).


      Now, I'd agree..... the gift of faith CAN be damaged, perhaps even wrecked entirely... so what we do CAN impact that. But that's another subject for another day and thread.




      .
      Last edited by Josiah; 01-29-2019 at 02:05 PM.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wilhemena View Post
      I could make a bet that you have all heard the saying that there are many who go to church but are not saved and I can't help but want to ask you how do you know? Have they renounced our great Lord in front of you to assuredly make such a statement?
      You can't know if they aren't saved and neither do any of those self-righteous people who make such claims. God hasn't given them a crystal ball to see if they have faith or not. If they turn from God, do not repent, and reject the Savior, we can question their faith. But to make the overgeneralized statement that many go to church and are not saved is not something THEY can prove!
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wilhemena View Post
      I could make a bet that you have all heard the saying that there are many who go to church but are not saved and I can't help but want to ask you how do you know? Have they renounced our great Lord in front of you to assuredly make such a statement?
      Jesus said we would know people by their fruits.

      If someone attends church on a Sunday morning and then spends Sunday afternoon gossiping, and spends the remaining 166 hours of the week living as if there were no God, one might question their salvation.

      As to whether any specific individual is saved - that's not for us to know. We cannot judge the heart but we can (and should) judge the fruit.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wilhemena View Post
      I could make a bet that you have all heard the saying that there are many who go to church but are not saved and I can't help but want to ask you how do you know? Have they renounced our great Lord in front of you to assuredly make such a statement?
      We can't see Gods mark on others and we cannot know their hearts. I was convicted of having "demons" on me at my last church which is why I left, I was sick with a cold so I wasn't very interactive and they were quick to assume. We do not know Gods election and we don't know if God is working in them, the flesh is stubborn but the spirit is willing.
      I couldn't tell for sure one way or another if God has plans for them in the future, that is not my call, as we assemble however we should judge and rightly divide scripture if they are not truly preaching the word of God, that is a duty that we are to judge the congregations and to not participate in false teachings.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wilhemena View Post
      I could make a bet that you have all heard the saying that there are many who go to church but are not saved and I can't help but want to ask you how do you know? Have they renounced our great Lord in front of you to assuredly make such a statement?
      It's a presumption based upon knowing that some people are there for other reasons--dragged there by family members, there because of business contacts, or there because or they are interested in spiritual matters and ethical values but have no actual commitment to Christ as one's Lord and personal Savior, for example.

      We all know a few churchgoers who are like that, so the comment is reasonable. Usually, there's no intent on the part of people who make that statement to identify who is who or to count noses; it's just a general observation.

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      We can't know for sure about someone else's salvation. Ultimately if they say that they are followers of Christ we have to take their word for it. I believe Paul once said that he didn't even judge himself

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wilhemena View Post
      I could make a bet that you have all heard the saying that there are many who go to church but are not saved and I can't help but want to ask you how do you know? Have they renounced our great Lord in front of you to assuredly make such a statement?
      Thinking about this some more, I can say for a fact that at least some people go to church without being saved. When I was about 14 I used to go to church almost every Sunday. I didn't care about God or Jesus or the Bible. I cared about the cute girl in the choir. There were times I even read one of the readings or helped with some other aspect of the church, but the simple reality was that I was more interested in the girl in the choir than in any of the proceedings in the church. After a time I could recite just about the entire service from memory but it still meant virtually nothing to me, beyond the chance to get closer to the cute girl in the choir.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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