You're recycling wrong!

Lamb

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I read an article a few months ago and today I was thinking about it as I took out my recyclables to the bin. I found a few other articles I'd like to share:

6 Things You’re Recycling Wrong

7 things you're probably recycling incorrectly


Sorry, you're recycling completely wrong

The greasy pizza boxes through me off guard...we've always recycled those and have never been told by the recycling companies to not put them in the bin.

Plastic bags are another thing we've thrown into our bins.

Do you rinse out your jars and bottles first? I rarely do that because I assume they have to be washed anyway?

Our old bin was an open small container but our new bin is a large trash size one with lid. I just found out that if you put newspaper into a bin and it gets wet that it cannot be recycled. So what's the point of having the little bin handed out to big communities if there is no lid to keep them dry?
 

NewCreation435

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I read an article a few months ago and today I was thinking about it as I took out my recyclables to the bin. I found a few other articles I'd like to share:

6 Things You’re Recycling Wrong

7 things you're probably recycling incorrectly


Sorry, you're recycling completely wrong

The greasy pizza boxes through me off guard...we've always recycled those and have never been told by the recycling companies to not put them in the bin.

Plastic bags are another thing we've thrown into our bins.

Do you rinse out your jars and bottles first? I rarely do that because I assume they have to be washed anyway?

Our old bin was an open small container but our new bin is a large trash size one with lid. I just found out that if you put newspaper into a bin and it gets wet that it cannot be recycled. So what's the point of having the little bin handed out to big communities if there is no lid to keep them dry?

We were told when we got our recycling bin to not put recycling in the bin that had food residue on it including things like pizza boxes.
We recycle a lot, cardboard, plastics, glass. I take the soda cans to another place to get money for those and have for years
 

tango

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I really struggle to think of recycling as much other than a con to keep the little people busy thinking they are doing something useful.

It's easy to deal with recycling if the people at the bottom of the chain (i.e. the likes of you and I) are expected to carry the cost and inconvenience of doing everything. You know, when we're expected to clean out jars and cans (using drinking quality water that is metered, which is a waste of other resources), then drive it to a recycling center (using our gas and our time), and then because recycling apparently saves energy it explains why places charge more for recycled goods.

I've often wondered why the same supply chain that distributes bottles isn't used to return empty bottles. To take a simple example, think of a case of beer. 24 glass 12oz bottles. I go to the distributor and buy a case of beer, so now I've got a box with a cardboard insert keeping 24 bottles from bumping against each other. This is adequate protection to haul the thing around the country in a truck without breaking the bottles. I take that case home and, in time, end up with a case containing 24 empty bottles. When I go to get another case, if the infrastructure existed I could take the case of empties back and trade it for a case of full bottles. Then, when the supply truck delivered another load of full bottles to the distributor they could pick up the cases of empties and take them back to the brewery. The empties could be autoclaved and reused, which would seem far more energy-efficient than breaking them up, melting them down, and making them into a fresh batch of bottles. Obviously anything too damaged to reuse could be put into a recycling rather than reuse program.

I've also wondered at the usefulness of purifying water to drinking quality, then using it to clean mayonnaise out of a jar so the jar can be recycled. I wonder why they don't build recycling plants next to rivers so they've got a supply of water that can be used, then filtered to get the crud out and put right back into the river. It makes so much more sense to use gray water than pure water, especially since the glass has to be sterilized anyway before it can be reused.

And of course they expect people to sort aluminum cans from steel cans. To do that in a domestic residence means you end up with two bins for cans. Why can't the recycling plant use magnets to separate them, rather than expecting me to do that and store two separate collections in my house?

Some time ago one of the UK supermarkets was offering loyalty points for putting recycling into one of their centers. From what I recall the standard setup was where you got points based on how much you spent there, but apparently some superstores had recycling centers where you could scan your loyalty card and it would give you a point for every bottle you put into the bottle bank. For a time I considered approaching one of the local bars (who had to pay to have their recyclables taken away - go figure) with a view to charging them half of what the council would charge them to take their empty bottles away, then taking the bottles to the supercenter and feeding them to the bottle bank to get the reward points.
 

NewCreation435

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I really struggle to think of recycling as much other than a con to keep the little people busy thinking they are doing something useful.

It's easy to deal with recycling if the people at the bottom of the chain (i.e. the likes of you and I) are expected to carry the cost and inconvenience of doing everything. You know, when we're expected to clean out jars and cans (using drinking quality water that is metered, which is a waste of other resources), then drive it to a recycling center (using our gas and our time), and then because recycling apparently saves energy it explains why places charge more for recycled goods.

I've often wondered why the same supply chain that distributes bottles isn't used to return empty bottles. To take a simple example, think of a case of beer. 24 glass 12oz bottles. I go to the distributor and buy a case of beer, so now I've got a box with a cardboard insert keeping 24 bottles from bumping against each other. This is adequate protection to haul the thing around the country in a truck without breaking the bottles. I take that case home and, in time, end up with a case containing 24 empty bottles. When I go to get another case, if the infrastructure existed I could take the case of empties back and trade it for a case of full bottles. Then, when the supply truck delivered another load of full bottles to the distributor they could pick up the cases of empties and take them back to the brewery. The empties could be autoclaved and reused, which would seem far more energy-efficient than breaking them up, melting them down, and making them into a fresh batch of bottles. Obviously anything too damaged to reuse could be put into a recycling rather than reuse program.

I've also wondered at the usefulness of purifying water to drinking quality, then using it to clean mayonnaise out of a jar so the jar can be recycled. I wonder why they don't build recycling plants next to rivers so they've got a supply of water that can be used, then filtered to get the crud out and put right back into the river. It makes so much more sense to use gray water than pure water, especially since the glass has to be sterilized anyway before it can be reused.

And of course they expect people to sort aluminum cans from steel cans. To do that in a domestic residence means you end up with two bins for cans. Why can't the recycling plant use magnets to separate them, rather than expecting me to do that and store two separate collections in my house?

Some time ago one of the UK supermarkets was offering loyalty points for putting recycling into one of their centers. From what I recall the standard setup was where you got points based on how much you spent there, but apparently some superstores had recycling centers where you could scan your loyalty card and it would give you a point for every bottle you put into the bottle bank. For a time I considered approaching one of the local bars (who had to pay to have their recyclables taken away - go figure) with a view to charging them half of what the council would charge them to take their empty bottles away, then taking the bottles to the supercenter and feeding them to the bottle bank to get the reward points.

Our grocery stores around here have bins that you can return plastic grocery bags so they can be recycled
 

tango

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Our grocery stores around here have bins that you can return plastic grocery bags so they can be recycled

I've seen a few of those. That's the sort of thing that makes it easy - use something until it's worn out and then leave it in the same place you got it and they deal with it. It's such a far cry from hearing that we're supposed to recycle glass for the sake of the environment but then realising that actually recycling glass means either storing a growing pile of it in my house or regularly driving (releasing the very carbon dioxide we're told is destroying the environment to the extent it's going to kill us all) to take the glass to the depot 20-odd miles away.
 

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Our grocery stores around here have bins that you can return plastic grocery bags so they can be recycled

I need to ask my grocer if they have that too. The ripped ones I just throw in the trash but we re-use the ones with no holes in them for cleaning the guinea pig cage as well as liners in the bathroom trash bins.
 

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I am lost on whether or not I should keep the plastic caps on containers or to leave them off because it isn't listed anywhere on the paper mailed out to me by my recycle company.
 

tango

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I am lost on whether or not I should keep the plastic caps on containers or to leave them off because it isn't listed anywhere on the paper mailed out to me by my recycle company.

Simple things like this also make me doubt the message we're being fed. Apparently recycling is critical for the future of the planet, and if recycling is contaminated the whole lot has to go to landfill, and yet the entities tasked with recycling can't even say whether they want the caps on the bottles or not. It has lots of signs of a setup so that those at the top can say "well, we tried", blame the rest of us for "not doing our part", while never being entirely clear just what they expect of us.

Of course if recycling really did represent a solution to an existential threat it would seem like an obvious way to address the threat and the issue of unemployment because people could be put to work checking things like whether caps were present, separating out different plastic types etc, where things were sufficiently similar it wasn't a simple option for a machine to do it.
 

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It's getting simpler to figure out - I'm still a little behind the times, though. Sometimes if I'm lazy I'll still throw recyclables in the trash. It gets taken and I've never had it refused (yet). My big thing here is bottle return. Each bottle has a different tax/deposit assigned - so a certain can may be 5 cents, but a large 2 Litre bottle may have 25 cents attached to it. We return them at these return depots that smell of a cheap beer brewery and are just disgusting. We sort them and take them to the counter for a refund. Michigan had the right idea - every can, bottle, whatever had a 10 cent deposit. Grocery stores had these DIY machines that read a bar code on the container, registered the refund, and 'collapsed' the container. At the end you get a receipt/coupon to use at the register or for cash. Simple!
 

tango

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It's getting simpler to figure out - I'm still a little behind the times, though. Sometimes if I'm lazy I'll still throw recyclables in the trash. It gets taken and I've never had it refused (yet). My big thing here is bottle return. Each bottle has a different tax/deposit assigned - so a certain can may be 5 cents, but a large 2 Litre bottle may have 25 cents attached to it. We return them at these return depots that smell of a cheap beer brewery and are just disgusting. We sort them and take them to the counter for a refund. Michigan had the right idea - every can, bottle, whatever had a 10 cent deposit. Grocery stores had these DIY machines that read a bar code on the container, registered the refund, and 'collapsed' the container. At the end you get a receipt/coupon to use at the register or for cash. Simple!

This isn't a new thing at all. When I was a child there was a surcharge of 10p (about 15c in US money) on a bottle of fizzy drink. At the time the options were limited to lemonade, cola, orangeade and (if you were really lucky) cherryade. So you'd pay for your bottle and when it was empty you'd take the empty bottle back to get the 10p back.

One other benefit of it was that you very rarely saw discarded bottles in the street because they were worth money. If the original owner couldn't be bothered to take them back then either the local teenagers would gather a few up or the local down-and-outs would. It's easy money if you can just gather up a few discarded bottles and turn them into cash, legally and with no questions asked.

I think one key thing that the process has to do that it's just totally missing, and even the most vocal greenies are missing, is that if you appeal to peoples' desire to save money for themselves you're far more likely to get the message across than if you're endlessly telling people how they need to sacrifice for the greater good (especially when the high priests of this new global religion do anything but sacrifice for the greater good). I keep my heating down because it saves me money. I drive my car efficiently because it saves me money. If it happens to also benefit the environment that's great but my primary motive is to save myself money. If recycling is easy to do and saves a bit of money it's far easier to get people to do it, than if you expect them to use the water they are paying for to clean things, then use up their space to store them, then burn up their gas and use their time to take them to a depot somewhere, all so someone else can make more of a profit selling them.

Last night I was reminded of another gripe. I ate a pot of yoghurt and on the pot were the words "crush pot to protect wildlife". Hey, I've got a better idea. How about you redesign the pot rather than dumping the problem on me and then acting like it's my responsibility to protect wildlife from the pot you designed?
 

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Of course if recycling really did represent a solution to an existential threat it would seem like an obvious way to address the threat and the issue of unemployment because people could be put to work checking things like whether caps were present, separating out different plastic types etc, where things were sufficiently similar it wasn't a simple option for a machine to do it.
...and if we really were to work at it, we probably could repeal the whole of the Industrial Revolution and go back to carrying a bucket to the local pub to be filled whenever we want a beer. Naturally, we would walk since automobiles use up rubber plants and create exhaust gasses. In time, we could all raise sheep in order to provide our suppers.

People see the downside--and the imagined downside--of human creativity and never give a thought to the immense benefits that we all have been given as a result of it.
 

Albion

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It's getting simpler to figure out - I'm still a little behind the times, though. Sometimes if I'm lazy I'll still throw recyclables in the trash. It gets taken and I've never had it refused (yet). My big thing here is bottle return. Each bottle has a different tax/deposit assigned - so a certain can may be 5 cents, but a large 2 Litre bottle may have 25 cents attached to it. We return them at these return depots that smell of a cheap beer brewery and are just disgusting. We sort them and take them to the counter for a refund. Michigan had the right idea - every can, bottle, whatever had a 10 cent deposit. Grocery stores had these DIY machines that read a bar code on the container, registered the refund, and 'collapsed' the container. At the end you get a receipt/coupon to use at the register or for cash. Simple!

However, it should probably also be said that the reason for adopting that bottle return policy was to keep the landscape from being filled with litter, not one of the more exotic eco-theories.
 

tango

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...and if we really were to work at it, we probably could repeal the whole of the Industrial Revolution and go back to carrying a bucket to the local pub to be filled whenever we want a beer. Naturally, we would walk since automobiles use up rubber plants and create exhaust gasses. In time, we could all raise sheep in order to provide our suppers.

People see the downside--and the imagined downside--of human creativity and never give a thought to the immense benefits that we all have been given as a result of it.

Seriously, if carbon emissions really do represent the level of threat we are told they do one has to wonder why the people who cry the loudest don't walk or use a bicycle. Is the convenience of a lifestyle more advaned than the Amish really worth wreaking such destruction upon untold millions of people in the developing nation?

Is the short-term benefit of a private motor vehicle really worth it, if the threat of it leading to our planet becoming uninhabitable within a few decades is even remotely credible?
 

Albion

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Seriously, if carbon emissions really do represent the level of threat we are told they do one has to wonder why the people who cry the loudest don't walk or use a bicycle. Is the convenience of a lifestyle more advaned than the Amish really worth wreaking such destruction upon untold millions of people in the developing nation?

Well, this response seems to be very much in line with what I was talking about. People love to claim that the world is about to end -- unless, of course, we (but not other nations) volunteer to return to primitivism. Like the Amish, did you say?? seriously?? The Amish couldn't function if it were not that EVERYONE ELSE in our society makes their way of living possible by the very inventions that they wont use. Its a gesture on their part. At best.

And the same is true for all the fashionable eco-enthusiasts who suppose that if they ride bicycles everywhere, the food they eat must have arrived on the store shelves by magic or thanks to deliveries that were also made by some teamster peddling a bicycle.
 

tango

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Well, this response seems to be very much in line with what I was talking about. People love to claim that the world is about to end -- unless, of course, we (but not other nations) volunteer to return to primitivism. Like the Amish, did you say?? seriously?? The Amish couldn't function if it were not that EVERYONE ELSE in our society makes their way of living possible by the very inventions that they wont use. Its a gesture on their part. At best.

And the same is true for all the fashionable eco-enthusiasts who suppose that if they ride bicycles everywhere, the food they eat must have arrived on the store shelves by magic or thanks to deliveries that were also made by some teamster peddling a bicycle.

It's just a part of the reason I struggle to take the climate change arguments very seriously. The people who shout the loudest tend not to practice what they preach and the high priests of the climate change religion are among the worst offenders. When people who talk of the problem of worsening hurricanes and rising sea levels own oceanfront property I wonder what they must know that they aren't telling the rest of us.

The irony I really notice yet the global warming enthusiasts seem to overlook, is the way the great and the good travel (first class, with armies of hangers-on, obviously) to exotic locations to discuss ways to tell the rest of us that our annual trip (economy class, to places far less exotic) is going to have to be sacrificed on their altar so that, well, they can continue to live it large over the rest of us. I sometimes wonder whether they learned from those who push the prosperity gospel in the churches.

I do think the Amish could continue to survive, albeit with some changes, without many of the things the rest of us use. Yes, you see the Amish in the grocery stores taking advantage of supplies that presumably didn't arrive on the back of a buggy. But to a large extent I think they would get by if they had to be a lot more self-sufficient. Certainly they would manage better than the rest of us.

As far as a more environmentally friendly lifestyle is concerned, I know at least some people who do consider the concept of "food miles", i.e. how far the food has travelled from where it was produced to their home. The thinking there is that if potatoes are grown on a farm in northern Delaware and then shipped to southern Delaware where they are bought and eaten by someone who lives 10 miles from the store, the total environmental impact is much lower than if that same person went to the same store to buy potatoes that were grown in Idaho. Looking at the whole picture like that makes sense if you want to take steps to reduce your overall environmental impact. But unless you're going to look at the total picture so much is lost - it's akin to the person who buys an electric vehicle because it "produces no emissions", forgetting that the electricity that charges the battery doesn't appear by magic and effectively all they have done is shift the emissions elsewhere. If you ride a bicycle to do your grocery shopping you will make a small difference, albeit one that is dwarfed by the construction of a single new power plant.

Much of the process seems to focus on the wrong steps. It was a long time ago I heard the phrase "reduce, refill, reuse, recycle". There seems to be more and more focus on recycling but essentially what that does is shift the burden onto the end user - the likes of you and I. It makes more sense to reuse and refill containers than throw them out to be recycled, especially when many containers could be reused easily. And reducing usage in the first place makes more sense still. It reminds me of how, as a child, I'd go to the local store (on foot, obviously) and buy a quarter-pound of my preferred candy. The individual pieces were loose, and would be weighed out and put into a paper bag. That was it - the packaging for half a pound of candy was one single paper bag (if you wanted more than half a pound it needed - horror - a SECOND paper bag). Now you buy a box of candy where each piece is individually wrapped in plastic, then the collection is put inside a plastic bag, inside a cardboard box, which is then wrapped in plastic. And of course it falls on the end-user to dispose of all this unwanted packaging. It seems the corporations are using more and more material to package their products which then shuffles down the chain and the end consumer is told to be a good little serf and run along (at their expense) to handle all this unwanted stuff. And the ironic part is that the corporations are the ones gushing about their corporate environmental responsibilities.
 

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I appreciate your comments there. But as for the Amish specifically, I wonder.

The brief mention I made just grazed the surface. They would have no modern medical treatment for the animals if it were not for our veterinarians and meds. They themselves are ignorant of a lot of what other farmers know about animal husbandry, in part I suppose because they are not schooled beyond the 8th grade level. It is not simply supermarkets that they need us for, although I used that as an illustration. The Amish cannot make a living by farming. While they might feed themselves, they cannot afford anything else much except that they work for and sell to the "English"--the rest of us. And for many of those jobs, they have to find a non-Amish friend willing DRIVE them to the worksite. And so it goes. My conclusion is, therefore, that it is far from certain that they could remove themselves from modern, mechanized, technically advanced society and survive as Amish people.
 

tango

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I appreciate your comments there. But as for the Amish specifically, I wonder.

The brief mention I made just grazed the surface. They would have no modern medical treatment for the animals if it were not for our veterinarians and meds. They themselves are ignorant of a lot of what other farmers know about animal husbandry, in part I suppose because they are not schooled beyond the 8th grade level. It is not simply supermarkets that they need us for, although I used that as an illustration. The Amish cannot make a living by farming. While they might feed themselves, they cannot afford anything else much except that they work for and sell to the "English"--the rest of us. And for many of those jobs, they have to find a non-Amish friend willing DRIVE them to the worksite. And so it goes. My conclusion is, therefore, that it is far from certain that they could remove themselves from modern, mechanized, technically advanced society and survive as Amish people.

It is certainly subject to discussion how well they could function. Certainly the Amish who work as roofers, stonemasons, carpenters etc would struggle if they could only work in areas they could reach by buggy. I really struggle to understand the mentality that says cars are forbidden but it's OK to ride in someone else's car. My understanding is that they eschew motor transport because it fragments communities, which makes it even more curious that they will use motor transport as long as it belongs to someone else. Certainly there are some within the Amish communities who seem very adept at getting around the rules.

They certainly could feed themselves, even if they require trade with non-Amish to fund much other than subsistence. The thing is that trading with people outside of the community doesn't inherently mean reliance on that community's technology, merely the existence of that community. If the gas pumps ran dry people who lived anywhere near Amish farms would most likely be heading there on foot on by bicycle to buy food - it's not like the failure of our technology would mean trade with the Amish would stop, it would just become harder. It's still easier to walk or cycle three miles to the nearest Amish farm than it is to walk or cycle the nearest 15 miles to the nearest grocery store.

Even ignoring the issue of trading outside their own community their farming still puts them ahead of most of the rest of us because if we do suddenly have something like an oil-related crisis the chances are the Amish will last longer than the rest of us. Maybe only just getting by but the community feeding itself is probably more than the rest of us could manage, if the gas pumps suddenly ran dry. If the price of oil surged (if I recall during the Suez crisis it quadrupled more or less overnight), how would most of American society function with gas ranging from $10-14/gallon? If the power goes out the Amish barely notice. When you see large-scale farming doing little more than producing endless mountains of corn you don't have anything that will sustain much of anything for any length of time. When a farmer grows everything from eggplant to peppers to blueberries to onions you've got something that will work a whole lot better than a supersized farm that can do little other than turn out another mountain of corn, but is then stuck with it because the scale of it needs large scale machinery to harvest it and get it to market.
 

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They certainly could feed themselves, even if they require trade with non-Amish to fund much other than subsistence. The thing is that trading with people outside of the community doesn't inherently mean reliance on that community's technology, merely the existence of that community. If the gas pumps ran dry people who lived anywhere near Amish farms would most likely be heading there on foot on by bicycle to buy food - it's not like the failure of our technology would mean trade with the Amish would stop, it would just become harder. It's still easier to walk or cycle three miles to the nearest Amish farm than it is to walk or cycle the nearest 15 miles to the nearest grocery store.


This line of thought turns my comment on its head, however. It is not as though our technology is apt to disappear. The point was that the Amish could not survive--as Amish--if THEIRs were all they depended upon. They eschew the ways of the English, but they rely upon them for their own survival.
 

tango

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This line of thought turns my comment on its head, however. It is not as though our technology is apt to disappear. The point was that the Amish could not survive--as Amish--if THEIRs were all they depended upon. They eschew the ways of the English, but they rely upon them for their own survival.

Our technology won't disappear but could become unusable. A widespread power outage would bring our modern payment systems to a halt, and a widespread internet outage would do much the same. Just look at how much grief it causes people when the power goes out for a few hours, and then imagine it going out for a week. At least some Amish would probably barely even notice if the power went out for a week. ETA: I remember a time fairly recently when I had gone to the bank and while I was there the power failed. They literally went into full-blown emergency mode, locking the doors and preventing any new customers from entering. Apparently that was required because with no power their security cameras wouldn't work, leaving them feeling more vulnerable to being raided. How many people keep enough cash on hand to last a couple of weeks, if the power were to go out for that long?

Perhaps different Amish communities have different levels of interaction with more modern technology.
 

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Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Anglican
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I don't seem any point in arguing the "what ifs" of a hypothetical situation, particularly one that would affect only a few people in a limited way and for only a short period of time anyway.
 
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